Ron78

The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

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5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

What you are suggesting is that Kirk blatantly lied, and without provocation or any need to do so what so ever.  Why would he do that? If he wants out why would he care about smoothing things over? C'mon, have we become that jaded that no matte what someone says it's discounted when it doesn't fit the narrative we want?

 

You are more willing to to believe that Kirk lied than to believe that Mortenson exaggerated. Who gains more from making false or misleading statements? Mortenson who got all types of attention and kudos for this "breaking" story? Or Kirk for smoothing things over? I mean if he really wants out why smooth things over? It just makes no sense at all.

 

Sorry, yes it's blatantly clear to me Mortenson at the very least embellished for personal gain at the very least.

 

 

 

HA...I don't think we need to be so black and white here. 

 

You don't think it's possible that Cousins is framing the discussion with Snyder a little differently than it happened since it's becoming increasingly obvious that he's going to be here for another year? I'm not saying I'm sure of it, but I think it's just as likely as your scenario. 

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So after the interview is it now more likely we sign Cousins to a LTD? or we still at a crossroads with him. That extra $10m or so we could possibly save on this year's cap with a LTD could go towards Hawkins or Poe. 

 

HTTR 

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

HA...I don't think we need to be so black and white here. 

 

You don't think it's possible that Cousins is framing the discussion with Snyder a little differently than it happened since it's becoming increasingly obvious that he's going to be here for another year? I'm not saying I'm sure of it, but I think it's just as likely as your scenario. 

 

Kirk had no reason what so ever to smooth things over. He had everything to gain by letting it continue to fester. Mortenson had every reason to pile on, especially while the Scot thing was going on. They had a field day with that. So sorry, no it's not "just as likely".

 

So, yes it is just that black and white.  I have Kirk's words in print from the person who is actually involved. You have a belief based on your opinion of the team and what you want to believe.

 

Kirk is the person is question. He publicly repudiates statements made about him. Why is that so hard to believe?

 

Edited by goskins10
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Just now, goskins10 said:

 

Kirk had no reason what so ever to smooth things over. He had everything to gain by letting it continue to fester. Mortenson had every reason to pile on, especially while the Scot thing was going on. They had a field day with that. So sorry, no it's not "just as likely". Look,

 

So, yes it is just that black and white.  I have Kirk's words in print from the person who is actually involved. You have a belief based on your opinion of the team and what you want to believe.

 

Kirk is the person is question. He publicly repudiates statements made about him. Why is that so hard to believe?

 

 

OK. 

 

I would say that if he's ready to leave ASAP, he has nothing to gain by this continuing to fester. He may just want a comfortable final year here with his coach and teammates and then a fresh start in SF. 

 

But carry on...

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Darn, I was kind of hoping that Kirk did really demand Bruce's job.

 

I guess thats what I get for falling for the DC Media again.

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Posted (edited)

Put me in the camp that still doesn't believe a LTD will happen. For whatever reason Bruce and Dan don't want to pay Cousins market value. Everyone on this board knows what the numbers are to make Cousins sign. It isn't like there is serious negotiations going on. Cousins wants market value, Skins FO doesn't want to pay that for some reason. My gut tells deep down Cousins wants to play in SF and will be a good solider through this year.

 

Also, Cousins has to have seen the love RG3 got from Danny Boy. He paid for his honeymoon. Dan was in love with RG3. I am sure Cousins doesn't get the same treatment. Cousins wants to go where is wanted.

Edited by Pick6
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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Calling someone ignorant because they see it differently is over the top. Fine to have your opinion but the personal attack is not necessary.

 

 

We have a difference of opinion in regards to what constitutes as an attack.  I don't consider it an attack when carex and the few others make similar comments to me about my level of negativity surrounding the team.  It's not that serious.  Perhaps my comment was overarching as it was meant to encompass the opinion on nearly everything related to the franchise, not just the recent comments about how Kirk is the culprit in this contract scenario.

 

Perhaps Mort was stepping out of bounds with his info about the trade demand.  But that interview did nothing to sway me that Kirk really wants to be here long term.  If it did you, I hope you are right.

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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Last year Denver and Von Miller were $31M in guarantees apart as late as June. The team at $39M Miller wanting $70M. In the end the team paid him. Just because you are ready to roll over and pay him what ever right now does not make it the right thing to do.

 

I keep going back to a car negotiation. Do you lead with your best offer? Does the dealership lead with their best offer? Also, all we heard off season is how much the team could do with an extra $4M/yr and now that the team is at least trying to save that money, they are somehow screwing things up. Double standard anyone?

 

 

If the FO think he's our franchise QB they should just pay him. I understand how negotiations work, but in this case in my view the standoff becomes detrimental to the team. At QB here it does. 

 

I also get the car comparison, but you don't offer 50% short in reality, even as an opening offer, not unless you are taking the piss or have no real intention to buy IMO

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Did scan the last couple pages and didn't see this--

 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/kirk-cousins-says-he-did-not-demand-trade-from-redskins/ar-AAols6f?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

Kirk Cousins says he did not demand trade from Redskins


 

Quote

 

Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins says he did not demand a trade away from the team, but instead asked about the franchise's plans after having the franchise tag placed on him.

 

Cousins' future with the team has been a topic all offseason.

 

"I did inquire if there was any interest in trading me to get an understanding of their perspective," Cousins said on ESPN's Adam Schefter on his Know Them From Adam podcast "The answer I got back was Mr. Snyder communicated his belief in me and desire for me to remain a Redskin."

 

Cousins says he first heard about the trade rumors when an employee at a shoe store asked him about while he was out with his wife.

 

"I laughed and thought, 'I don't know where that comes from because that wasn't the case,'" Cousins said. "Somehow it got twisted to where an employee of the store is using the word demanded. That's not the approach I took."

 

Cousins has had the franchise tag placed on him in each of the past two seasons. In 2015, he made $19.953 million under the tag. This season, he scheduled to be paid $23.94 million and is eligible to be traded because he signed the tender.

 

"This entire process from a contractual standpoint has been framed by the franchise tag rules," Cousins said on the podcast. "It hasn't been framed by my market value. I would be content to go to the market and see what the value is and settle for what that is. But because of the tag rules and the team's use of the tag, that just hasn't taken place. ... So until that system of the tag is removed from the equation or from the collective bargaining agreement altogether, that will frame the entirety of my agent's approach."

 

The 28-year-old Cousins completed 67% of his passes last season for a franchise record 4,917 yards with 25 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.


 

 

  i will note the writer is named "scooby" 

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1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

Kirk Cousins says he did not demand trade from Redskins

 

i will note the writer is named "scooby" 

 

I believe him more now. Anyone named "Scooby" doesn't have any friends or a social life, so he's definitely dedicated to his career.

 

ESPN is also posting the article, and you can listen to the podcast itself. Good news. And (shocker!) the sports media gets it wrong.

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1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

Did scan the last couple pages and didn't see this--

 

 

  i will note the writer is named "scooby" 

Look up, Shaggy. :ols:

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Just now, Broken TK said:

Look up, Shaggy. :ols:

 

  i did. you're soooooooo predictable and slow :)

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9 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

  i did. you're soooooooo predictable and slow :)

Yet I beat you to it Ancient One.

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1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

OK. 

 

I would say that if he's ready to leave ASAP, he has nothing to gain by this continuing to fester. He may just want a comfortable final year here with his coach and teammates and then a fresh start in SF. 

 

But carry on...

 

things that are said can't be unsaid, and players know what's BS and what's not considering they have to spout it themselves

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6 minutes ago, Broken TK said:

Yet I beat you to it Ancient One.

Maybe you two would like to be left alone around here?

 

:hug-kiss:

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Posted (edited)

I never thought Kirk "demanded" a trade or made things as simple as "I won't sign a deal if Bruce is in charge".  That doesn't seem to be his nature.  He seems to be very calculated with what he says, particularly to the media.  If there is one thing he is stellar at, it's talking to the media and not giving them much of anything during contract negotiations. Saying he inquired about the possibility of a trade could mean a whole lot of things other than just "gauging interest".  It seems to me as if things are somewhere in between, as they typically are. 

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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12 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Maybe you two would like to be left alone around here?

 

:hug-kiss:

That's a LOT of DELETING to do. Hmmmm.......

 

 

 

 

 

WONDERFUL ah yessssssssssssssss

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People ask, 'If it were you know who, would the front office be stalling on a deal ? ' 

 

Would those those same people be blaming the front office , the media, and our very own fan base, plus not calling you know who greedy and shiesty if it were you know who??

 

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

People ask, 'If it were you know who, would the front office be stalling on a deal ? ' 

 

Would those those same people be blaming the front office , the media, and our very own fan base, plus not calling you know who greedy and shiesty if it were you know who??

 

Opinions would be all over the place, as they are now.

 

That still doesn't change the fact that those people are right and you know it.  If RG3 ended up putting up #s like Kirk did, he'd already be on a big $$$ long term deal and never would have sniffed a franchise tag.  That's a no brainer for a # of reasons, but the primary being how much they invested in Robert, loved Robert and the $$$ his persona generated.

 

After all, they did carry the guy and pay him millions to play scout team safety in 2015, after picking up an option worth 17 mill months prior.  I think its safe to say that had Robert played well, even if not as good as Kirk, he'd be locked up and not a rental.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome

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I am still in the camp that a LTD is done.  I've listened to much of Kirk's interview.  Listening to it makes me double down on the simple point:

 

1.  You offer Kirk 24 million on a long term contract, I'd guess about $70 million or so guaranteed.  You land him.

2.  Bruce hasn't been willing to offer that to him, thus far.  So they are at a stand still

 

The only shift in my thinking based on that interview was I have been heavy handed that Kirk wants to be here and recently switched to I am not as confident of that.  i am back on the confident train, I don't sense that Kirk is dying to be here and I am sure he's willing to go elsewhere but he seems willing to stay.

 

Cooley and Sheehan speculated that the Kirk wants to go to SF is coming from the Redskins FO not Kirk's camp.   So they speculated if the FO wants to make Kirk look like the bad guy in case they deal him or can't come to terms on a LTC -- that narrative might help cover their backs.  Not sure about that one way or another.  But I hope not.  Kirk said he just asked Dan if they intend to trade him versus actually ask for a trade so the idea that both that conversation gets twisted into a negative spin -- coupled with the fact that it gets out publicly -- is what gave them pause than it might be a leak from the FO.  But who knows.

 

 

 

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At this point if this is coming down to 3 to 4 million a year difference.

 

Snyder is a moron not to just pay the man his money.

 

Signing Kirk to long term deal is about the only thing this franchise can do to save face.

 

I've got a feeling it's more than just the money at this point.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

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At this point, is the team waiting until after the draft?  I am sure there will be a couple more FA signings, but it seems like the Cousins' deal is going to drag on. 

 

As for Kirk's interview.  This is what I think he said:  Being on the tag, I can't negotiate with other teams and therefore we can't accurately determine my market value.  Because of the tag, the only $ value we have to work with is the tag number.  So, we need to use the $23.95m as our negotiating point.  Seems fair to me. 

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This interview was long due to end some of the speculations fans have had and put the ball back in the FO's court. Now everyone knows that it is most likely all over some $$$. I do think it is stupid that they might be negotiating so shrewd with best glimmer of hope we have had since Napoleon has taken over

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