Ron78

The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

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The bull**** speculation by the media aside, I'm confident something will get done. With the comments from Jay, Kirk, and his agent, I would be very surprised if a long term deal wasn't reached by the deadline. My guess would be an average of around $22M per, with a lot of guarantees.

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I am a believer in Kirk and who knows maybe he won't win us a Super Bowl but I KNOW this...

 

1) With Kirk and Gruden together I am conf Dent that they would always put an above average offense on the field without a doubt.

 

2) Also I am confident that Kirk will continue to work to put in the work to become the best QB that he can be even if he gets paid... it's just his makeup as a person...

 

We should just accept him as our franchise QB and get the LTD.   Why can't we just guarantee a much bigger portion of the contract in exchange for slight discount in per year value of the contract. 

 

 

Give him guaranteed salary for next 4 years in exchange for $2-3 mil per year discount.... do people think Kirk will suddenly change as a person and suck because we have him that money?  I don't think so.

 

 

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Jay is pretty much a straight shooter.  Reading through all his quotes today -- he was upbeat about getting a deal done with Kirk or at least that was the expressed goal.  At the same time he talked about liking the idea of bringing Desean and Pierre back but also talked about the realities of neither being back and if so they got a Plan B.  No Plan B mentioned relating to Kirk.  I see that as another sign that they are super serious about locking in Kirk. 

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36 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

The bull**** speculation by the media aside, I'm confident something will get done. With the comments from Jay, Kirk, and his agent, I would be very surprised if a long term deal wasn't reached by the deadline. My guess would be an average of around $22M per, with a lot of guarantees.

 

After they used the exclusive tag I tend to agree with you. They sent the message they wanted to that he is THE Redskins QB. If they wanted to entertain offers they wouldnt have used that tag. I think they will get something done. 

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Posted (edited)

Really surprised how many people all of the sudden believe that Kirk will now settle for fair market value on a LTD ($22M)... It's irrelevant which tag Kirk was dealt, the facts of the matter are that we knew this would happen and that he still holds all the chips. I'd considerate an absolute bargain if he signs a LTD for less than $24M/yr. When combining the factors of the annual cap increase with the QB desperation of this franchise and there's no reason he should settle for less than Luck... unless of course he actually likes it here and cares about winning

Edited by CTskin
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I was thinking of a buddy in our gang back in the day. He was one of those guys who often ended up in the stupid. But what was standout was how hard he'd fight to stay in the stupid no matter what. No internet back then, so we were all he had. I like to think that somewhere he's found an internet forum where he is running with his own kind. 

 

It's hard for me to pick what topic is inevitably tied to the most stupid. Obviously the QB controversies are a staple, and the message board play-calling experts on the coaches' calls (during the game, especially) are usually rife with it, but discussion on how much money a player should ask for is right at the top. Ignorance, emotionalism, and hypocrisy are premier players in all discussions here (it's an nfl message board lol), but in a few they truly rule the bulk of it.

 

My bottom line is that if a team can't successfully manage their negotiations it's all on them. If as a team owner, I'm in a situation where I have to depend on some "good will" of a player to make my budget work properly, that's on me. The player (and agent) can see his value as whatever he wants. The team's job is to know what the player is worth to them.

 

People I know would like to be paid as much as they possibly could. I imagine a few would balk at a sum that they're sure would break their company, but they should not be charged with carrying that responsibility---not their job. If a player does offer contract flexibility to help the team in cap-strapped situations when a lot is at stake---like returning to a conference championship game or SB as has been done in a few occasions across the league at times---then that is a great bonus for that team to have that guy. But it's a bonus and shouldn't be an expectation or obligation on the player(s).

 

The team's financial strategies are the team's responsibility. The player puts himself and his family @ #1, the team #2, and if he makes a poor career choice in the process, that's the part on him. And it's "proper" that you get to be pissed at him for messing up your team in his "wrong" (cuz if he was right and meets success there, you shut up). Most fans have little to zero player loyalty in truth---it's all about return (imagined, hoped-for, or currently extant).

 

If even the favored player sucks too much for too long, he's out of favor and ready to be moved by fans and the team at a certain point, no matter how much he was a "good guy" and "loved" at one time. Looking at these matters from a perspective that there are clearly and justly defined, let alone reciprocal and equitable, levels of loyalty expected to guide the player is foolish, and judging people based on such is moreso.

 

A final glaring fact is that as with so many other matters, these ill-formed bases for judgment are usually floating in a sea of relative ignorance regarding what is actually going on between the actors involved. Many folks obviously choose to simply make **** up in their heads---sometimes seemingly as some sort of angst-incurring pastime. One of my mantras on many topics is "why not wait and see what really happens?" before opining with surety or indulging in speculations with much emotional investment attached. Any such topic can still be posted on with intelligence and without falling into the same old pitfalls time after time.

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I'm not even sure Cousins should be the starter. He audibles into pass plays too much and McCoy should have a chance to compete. Cousins is worth less than $20 mil a year. 

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16 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

I was thinking of a buddy in our gang back in the day. He was one of those guys who often ended up in the stupid. But what was standout was how hard he'd fight to stay in the stupid no matter what. No internet back then, so we were all he had. I like to think that somewhere he's found an internet forum where he is running with his own kind. 

 

It's hard for me to pick what topic is inevitably tied to the most stupid. Obviously the QB controversies are a staple, and the message board play-calling experts (during the game, especially), but discussion on how much money a player should ask for is right at the top. Ignorance, emotionalism, and hypocrisy are premier players in all discussions here (it's an nfl message board lol), but in a few they truly rule the bulk of it.

 

My bottom line is that if a team can't successfully manage their negotiations it's all on them. If as a team owner, I'm in a situation where I have to depend on some "good will" of a player to make my budget work properly, that's on me. The player (and agent) can see his value as whatever he wants. The team's job is to know what the player is worth to them.

 

People I know would like to be paid as much as they possibly could. I imagine a few would balk at a sum that they're sure would break their company, but they should not be charged with carrying that responsibility---not their job. If a player does offer contract flexibility to help the team in cap-strapped situations when a lot is at stake---like returning to a conference championship game or SB as has been done in a few occasions across the league at times---then that is a great bonus for that team to have that guy. But it's a bonus and shouldn't be an expectation or obligation on the player(s).

 

The team's financial strategies are the team's responsibility. The player puts himself and his family @ #1, the team #2, and if he makes a poor career choice in the process, that's the part on him. And it's "proper" that you get to be pissed at him for messing up your team in his "wrong" (cuz if he was right and meets success there, you shut up). Most fans have little to zero player loyalty in truth---it's all about return (imagined, hoped-for, or currently extant).

 

If even the favored player sucks too much for too long, he's out of favor and ready to be moved by fans and the team at a certain point, no matter how much he was a "good guy" and "loved" at one time. Looking at these matters from a perspective that there are clearly and justly defined, let alone reciprocal and equitable, levels of loyalty expected to guide the player is foolish, and judging people based on such is moreso.

 

A final glaring fact is that as with so many other matters, these ill-formed bases for judgment are usually floating in a sea of relative ignorance regarding what is actually going on between the actors involved. Many folks obviously choose to simply make **** up in their heads---sometimes seemingly as some sort of angst-incurring pastime. One of my mantras on many topics is "why not wait and see what really happens?" before opining with surety or indulging in speculations with much emotional investment attached. Any such topic can still be posted on with intelligence and without falling into the same old pitfalls time after time.

Man this feels unnecessary. You don't like the topic, you don't need to partake. We've had no football, no PR, no leaks for months, have to keep busy debating something. At some point someone will be able to say "told ya so" about the situation and by then we'll be able to talk actual football.

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9 minutes ago, ddub52 said:

I'm not even sure Cousins should be the starter. He audibles into pass plays too much and McCoy should have a chance to compete. Cousins is worth less than $20 mil a year. 

 

OK Miss McCoy. 

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10 minutes ago, ddub52 said:

I'm not even sure Cousins should be the starter. He audibles into pass plays too much and McCoy should have a chance to compete. Cousins is worth less than $20 mil a year. 

 

Oh FFS, that's what follow's Jumbo's post?  Really?

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12 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Oh FFS, that's what follow's Jumbo's post?  Really?

 

We needed something to lighten the mood lol...

 

For example, I think we should let DeSean Jackson go and start a ferret in his place...

 

MAM-15-XA0001-01P.JPG

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

We needed something to lighten the mood lol...

 

For example, I think we should let DeSean Jackson go and start a ferret in his place...

 

 

 
 

nice..but I think a mongoose would have more separation ability for a quick strike...

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Stefanskins
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You're both wrong...a dirtbike is ideal, even if there's a giant puddle from the rain:

X4ydnGn.gif

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

nice..but I think a mongoose would have more separation ability for a quick strike...

 

Mongoose should play CB...he can stare down OBJ and get under his skin...

 

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, PigskinRedskin said:

You're both wrong...a dirtbike is ideal, even if there's a giant puddle from the rain:
 

 

DeSean is faster lol...

Edited by Califan007
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For the record, I think "good will" is one of the most important commodities a businessman cultivates.  Sales 101 is evoking emotional attachment.  Almost any salesmanship that does not focus on emotions is poor salesmanship.  At that point you are just selling dollar per dollar value, and the only one that wins with that is Walmart.

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1 minute ago, PigskinRedskin said:

You're both wrong...a dirtbike is ideal, even if there's a giant puddle from the rain:

 

 

wow....balls as big as church bells...

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2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Mongoose should play CB...he can stare down OBJ and get under his skin...

 

DeSean is faster lol...

 

AdmirableSneakyAmericancrayfish.gif

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11 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

(Rikki Tikki Tavi gif)

 

Your gif shows how a mongoose and Odell Beckham Jr would face off better than my still shot lol...

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Rikki Tikki Tavi makes it onto ES. 

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Aaaaand Jumbo walks in, swallows a thesaurus, and slays everyone within sight with word shrapnel. 

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28 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Man this feels unnecessary. You don't like the topic, you don't need to partake. We've had no football, no PR, no leaks for months, have to keep busy debating something. At some point someone will be able to say "told ya so" about the situation and by then we'll be able to talk actual football.

 

What was unnecessary was you breaking rule 11 with such a fatuous reply (and I'll give you a pass on a rule 12 violation, which I considered doing in the spirit of TSO's comment sometime back of "screw it, i'm not gonna be trolled' in a similar situation).

 

It is also a gratuitous reply if you comprehended the last sentence properly, but apparently you needed something to do.

 

While I didn't apply it to any specific poster, as often happens, I think someone who's ears were burning applied it to themselves.

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5 minutes ago, Pwyl said:

Aaaaand Jumbo walks in, swallows a thesaurus, and slays everyone within sight with word shrapnel. 

giphy.gif

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3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I want Kirk back, don't get me wrong.  But for those saying the minimum average the Redskins must pay per year is $24 million because that is the cost of the tag, do you guys also think the minimum average the Rams must pay Trumaine Johnson per year is $16 million in any new deal because that is the cost of his tag?

 

Adam SchefterVerified account @AdamSchefter

Rams placed franchise tag on CB Trumaine Johnson, per source. Another player tagged before today's 4 pm deadline.

Adam SchefterVerified account @AdamSchefter

With today's franchise tag, Rams CB Trumaine Johnson is now scheduled to be NFL's highest-paid CB at $16 million.

 

That's why I have always said that reason doesn't make much sense to me.  Now if you said Cousins would get more per year compared to his tag figure on the open market than Johnson would, that would make more sense.  But saying $24 million is the minimum average per year we must pay just because that is the tag figure has always been ridiculous IMO.

 

Agreed. It should be LOWER tbh. If we give you $24M for 1 year, then if we give you 5-6 years it should be lower.

 

I think he'll come in around 22AAV. Media have been idiots. Skins handled this situation well. Be cautious, tag him last year, make him prove it, then pay.

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Posted (edited)

I'm a little confused on Trumaine's tag, if it's essentially the average salary of the top 5 at the position, how is he the highest paid?

 

Edit: Forgot he got the tag last year. 

Edited by PartyPosse

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54 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm a little confused on Trumaine's tag, if it's essentially the average salary of the top 5 at the position, how is he the highest paid?

 

2nd tag gets him a 20% raise over his previous salary. Same as Kirk.

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