The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My issue with Bruce in FA is like Keim likes to say his drill is to get the bargain.  And I just don't like that being the overriding approach to FA.   Sometimes you got to overpay to land a target.   If you got to pay $500,000 more to land Logan over KC to ensure you have a real NT, than its worth it IMO.   

 

I'll say this about Bruce (and you can call me a homer if you want) but he is almost the opposite of Vinny in every regard. He is a guy who listens to his scouts - which is something that Vinny never really did. He values the draft. I mean in his 7 years here we have had 6, 12, 9, 7, 8, 10, and 7 picks. I think Vinny had 1 year here with more 7 picks or more (maybe 2 - 2002 and 2008). Then there's the being cheap / frugal / wise, depending on who you talk to. He's also making good deals - whether these are Scot or him, the fact that we were able to trade for Carrier and give up almost nothing, we've been able to trade players away and get players to come in and compete. 

 

But the thing I like the most about our team, and this is not about wins and losses because those are too hard to predict and quantify, but its that we aren't just looking to fill holes with other teams success stories. I'm sad to lose Baker because he was one of the best home-grown stories that we've had here in a while - even better than Rock Cartwright. But he was pushing 30 and signing a player in free agency shouldn't be about what they've done on their last contract as much as what you expect them to do on their next one. I also wonder if what Art was saying in the other thread had anything do do with our not sending out offers. I doubt it, but makes you think. 

 

Every year under Vinny I would watch the UDFAs and hope we'd sign some, then I'd look at the ones we signed hoping that one would break through. But what I saw was they were often not given the opportunities that I wanted so they would wind up stalling. But with Bruce we've seen Baker, Compton, Kearse, Kelley, Ross, Harris, Dunbar, Forbath, Way, Hopkins, Akeem Davis, Jackson Jeffcoat, Chase Minnifield, Nick WIlliams, etc. I'm not saying that all (any) of these guys were worldbeaters, but the fact that we were out looking for talented young guys to not just fill the roster but have active roles means that we were giving ourselves a shot at finding gems. 

 

Look at our average experience under Snyder

2016 - 4.1, 26.8

2015 - 3.4, 26.4

2014 - 3.5, 26.4

2013 - 3.6, 26.7

2012 - 3.1, 26.4

2011 - 3.7, 26.8

2010 - 4.4, 27.5

 

2009 - 4.4, 27.6

2008 - 4.7, 27.7

2007 - 5.4, 28.6

2006 - 5.0, 28.1

2005 - 4.2, 27.5

2004 - 3.8, 27.2

2003 - 3.6, 26.8

 

Thats the last 14 years (7 Bruce, 7 pre-Bruce) and you see a stark difference in the type of players we're going after. Maybe we're not world beaters like the Packers at doing this but we are also not making those same mistakes of those teams and using Schaffer to get us out of cap hell after a deal goes bad. And while people are quick o rag on Bruce and the state of the team we are still coming off back to back winning seasons with our current defense. 

 

I don't think that finding a DT/ILB/FS will be easy and the fan in me does kinda wish we were able to bring somebody else, the side of me that hated Vinny's FA moves is quietly happy that we're going into the draft with 10 picks, hoping we don't trade up (keeping that number at 10) and hopes that we're able to find some gems that have rookie years like Alfred Morris, but I wouldn't even mind if they come into their own in their second or third seasons like Moses or Long & Murphy. 

[Long n Left]

10 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I'll say this about Bruce (and you can call me a homer if you want) but he is almost the opposite of Vinny in every regard. He is a guy who listens to his scouts - which is something that Vinny never really did. He values the draft. I mean in his 7 years here we have had 6, 12, 9, 7, 8, 10, and 7 picks. I think Vinny had 1 year here with more 7 picks or more (maybe 2 - 2002 and 2008). Then there's the being cheap / frugal / wise, depending on who you talk to. He's also making good deals - whether these are Scot or him, the fact that we were able to trade for Carrier and give up almost nothing, we've been able to trade players away and get players to come in and compete. 

 

But the thing I like the most about our team, and this is not about wins and losses because those are too hard to predict and quantify, but its that we aren't just looking to fill holes with other teams success stories. I'm sad to lose Baker because he was one of the best home-grown stories that we've had here in a while - even better than Rock Cartwright. But he was pushing 30 and signing a player in free agency shouldn't be about what they've done on their last contract as much as what you expect them to do on their next one. I also wonder if what Art was saying in the other thread had anything do do with our not sending out offers. I doubt it, but makes you think. 

 

Every year under Vinny I would watch the UDFAs and hope we'd sign some, then I'd look at the ones we signed hoping that one would break through. But what I saw was they were often not given the opportunities that I wanted so they would wind up stalling. But with Bruce we've seen Baker, Compton, Kearse, Kelley, Ross, Harris, Dunbar, Forbath, Way, Hopkins, Akeem Davis, Jackson Jeffcoat, Chase Minnifield, Nick WIlliams, etc. I'm not saying that all (any) of these guys were worldbeaters, but the fact that we were out looking for talented young guys to not just fill the roster but have active roles means that we were giving ourselves a shot at finding gems. 

 

Look at our average experience under Snyder

2016 - 4.1, 26.8

2015 - 3.4, 26.4

2014 - 3.5, 26.4

2013 - 3.6, 26.7

2012 - 3.1, 26.4

2011 - 3.7, 26.8

2010 - 4.4, 27.5

 

2009 - 4.4, 27.6

2008 - 4.7, 27.7

2007 - 5.4, 28.6

2006 - 5.0, 28.1

2005 - 4.2, 27.5

2004 - 3.8, 27.2

2003 - 3.6, 26.8

 

Thats the last 14 years (7 Bruce, 7 pre-Bruce) and you see a stark difference in the type of players we're going after. Maybe we're not world beaters like the Packers at doing this but we are also not making those same mistakes of those teams and using Schaffer to get us out of cap hell after a deal goes bad. And while people are quick o rag on Bruce and the state of the team we are still coming off back to back winning seasons with our current defense. 

 

I don't think that finding a DT/ILB/FS will be easy and the fan in me does kinda wish we were able to bring somebody else, the side of me that hated Vinny's FA moves is quietly happy that we're going into the draft with 10 picks, hoping we don't trade up (keeping that number at 10) and hopes that we're able to find some gems that have rookie years like Alfred Morris, but I wouldn't even mind if they come into their own in their second or third seasons like Moses or Long & Murphy. 

Let's also not forget that in Bruce's 7 years here, the Redskins have won 2 NFC East championships. They won one in the 19 years prior to his arrival. Also, while in TB, the Bucs won 2 South titles during Bruce's 5 year tenure. During his seven years in Oakland, the Raiders won 3 AFC West titles. That makes 7 division titles in the 19 years Bruce has been in a front office. 

 

Id take that in these next 19 years.

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Long n Left said:

Let's also not forget that in Bruce's 7 years here, the Redskins have won 2 NFC East championships. They won one in the 19 years prior to his arrival. Also, while in TB, the Bucs won 2 South titles during Bruce's tenure. During his seven years in Oakland, the Raiders won 3 AFC West titles. That makes 7 division titles in the 19 years Bruce has been in a front office. 

 

Id take that in these next 19 years.

 

That's the thing I didn't get about the hate for Bruce in 2014. People were saying he was another Vinny, but Bruce has a history of success - now with 3 different organizations. People want to say that its nothing but he freakin won the Executive of the Year award. He didn't win a ring in Oak or TB, but he did take Oakland to the SB. I feel like I'm president of the BA fan club, but I'm really not. I just feel like he gets a raw deal with the media and fans here in DC. 

[Long n Left]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

That's the thing I didn't get about the hate for Bruce in 2014. People were saying he was another Vinny, but Bruce has a history of success - now with 3 different organizations. People want to say that its nothing but he freakin won the Executive of the Year award. He didn't win a ring in Oak or TB, but he did take Oakland to the SB. I feel like I'm president of the BA fan club, but I'm really not. I just feel like he gets a raw deal with the media and fans here in DC. 

I feel ya man.

 

I knew Bruce years ago when I lived in the DMV. He was an agent back then. I wasn't a friend, but I've spent a couple days on the golf course with him. He's a great guy, the kind you'd love to hang with for a few hours, have a couple beers and talk football. And, football is his passion. He has been in and around football literally all his life, and make no mistake, the Redskins are his team. He grew up with them, and has always been a Redskin at heart.

 

He has his dream job, and I believe this franchise is in very capable hands as long as he is President. Bruce is the perfect buffer to keep Dan at bay, IMHO.

[DC Lumber Co.]

One move I actually support more than seemingly the entire fanbase is letting Baker walk. I like that the team is firm about not standing for any player who thinks they can freelance. And he was on the wrong side of 30. Fan-favorite personality be damned, stick to the draft-first philosophy and build your roster with players who buy in to the coaches, scheme and give consistent effort.

 

And if McGee and McClain end up being part of a rotation that includes two rookies taken in the first 4 rounds it has the potential to be a massive improvement over last years group. McGee and McClain both excel at playing the run and have upside. Right now I'd say that the D-Line unit is a wash not a downgrade, and younger to boot. I'm reserving any panic for when we don't add pieces to it in the draft, which seems highly unlikely based on everything we've heard thus far and the roster spot left by Ricky Jean. 

 

*Icing on the cake would be Anthony Lanier making a big jump in development or being half as good as coaches make him sound (aka the Ryan Grant effect)*

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

That's the thing I didn't get about the hate for Bruce in 2014. People were saying he was another Vinny, but Bruce has a history of success - now with 3 different organizations. People want to say that its nothing but he freakin won the Executive of the Year award. He didn't win a ring in Oak or TB, but he did take Oakland to the SB. I feel like I'm president of the BA fan club, but I'm really not. I just feel like he gets a raw deal with the media and fans here in DC. 

 

Not sure where the history of success is coming from.  Tampa went 38-42 while Bruce was the GM.   The Redskins have gone 45-66 with him here.  With the Raiders he was senior executive and by most accounts Al Davis himself shopped for the groceries.  And they went 64-64.   He's an ex-agent who has a reputation of being savvy with money.  I like that about him but I want him to stay in his lane.  I don't want the dude overruling our personnel guys.  I have a really good plumber and an electrician.  I don't want my plumber overruling my electrician and making the ultimate call as to electrical work in my house.  That simple to me.  I don't think anyone here has issues with Bruce aside from that point. 

 

I didn't like Vinny's approach to trading picks and I didn't like his overzealous approach to FA.  I didn't hate everything he did. There are aspects of it I like.   For example when Joe Gibbs came, Vinny went to town and brought in some horses:  Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, C. Griffin.  It was our own version of what the Giants did last year in FA to turn the defense around.  It worked.  Imagine Bruce doing the same?  I don't.   Then in 2006, Vinny did what I don't like about him, he can't leave well enough alone so another spending spree, this time on mediocre players.  Would Bruce do the same?  I don't think so. 

 

Like Vinny, I don't like Bruce's approach to FA for the opposite reasons.  But there are aspects of it I like.  I like that he isn't going to saddle the team with a Haynesworth type of contract and I Iike that he isn't going to kill the cap with much dead money, etc.  But as Keim suggested, Bruce has to show he can succeed with his FA signings otherwise the approach will be summed up as cheap and ineffective.  It's the problem IMO of having a money guy run personnel.  Yeah the money aspect of it is smart but lets actually get more hits than misses in FA for a change.  The NY Giants weren't cheap in 2015, didn't get bargains in FA but rebuilt their defense in one fell swoop.  Does it feel like Bruce is doing the same?

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30648/redskins-ditch-old-spending-habits-but-need-frugality-to-pay-off

What we do know is that the Redskins' lavish spending of the past didn’t work. We also know their bargain hunting hasn’t struck gold in the early parts of free agency the past few years, either.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/9/bruce-allen-was-supposed-be-better-vinny-cerrato/

Bruce Allen has now come to represent the opposite of everything that his father, George Allen, symbolized to Redskins fans — glory, success, winning.

The son’s legacy is shame, failure, losing.

Bruce Allen’s arrival was hailed as the start of the era of professionalism, and the end of the era of the Clown Prince of Redskins Park, Vinny Cerrato.

During his stint from 2002 to 2009, Cerrato’s record was 52-65.

Bruce Allen’s reign at Redskins Park? A record of 45-66-1.

 

[justice98]

16 hours ago, Sekhmet187 said:

Is there any thought Bruce didn't want to break the bank on any one guy assuming the next GM in place would want some room as opposed to being saddled with people who might not be his guys?

 

I hear a lot about people not happy Bruce hasn't gone out an offered contracts to some of the top dlineman, but what if the thought was to get bargained contracts with an eye for cap space in the future so the next GM doesn't walk in an want to burn it all?

 

 

I think that would be a terrible strategy.  Managing the team for the next guy, in a situation where the next guy won't have any real power anyway.  If the FA buck stops with Bruce, he should just do what he wants.

 

Presumably, you wouldnt hire a GM with that mindset of blowing it up in the first place.  A guy coming in hating on everything you just did in FA probably isn't getting the gig.  

[carex]

this stuff about Allen is  pure BS

[MEANDWARF]

On 3/20/2017 at 6:54 PM, MEANDWARF said:

I'll see you all later when there is a rumor of a pending visit.

Later!

Well, I am a man of my word, staying away until there was a visit. Anyone knows how Hightower visit went?

 

Am I the only one whom feels that no one wants to come here because of the malfunction going on in the front office. ( I mean besides Swearinger, Boyor, McClain, etc).

Show of hands!

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, MEANDWARF said:

Well, I am a man of my word, staying away until there was a visit. Anyone knows how Hightower visit went?

 

Am I the only one whom feels that no one wants to come here because of the malfunction going on in the front office. ( I mean besides Swearinger, Boyor, McClain, etc).

Show of hands!

 

 

I am sticking with money talks in FA, to me this off season isn't anything new as to FA.     LaConfora though suggested that all that's going on has had an influence on some of their targets to be the next personnel guy -- he said prospects don't like Bruce interfering among other things.   As for people thinking Bruce doesn't really interfere -- maybe so but apparently there is some perception out there that he does.  So I don't think its just some quirky off beat perception by some reporters and no one else buys into it.  So if Bruce isn't into power plays, etc hopefully he squares that away with whomever they are targeting.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, carex said:

this stuff about Allen is  pure BS

 

It is, but he makes for an easy target right now. Lazy writers will churn out negative articles on the man with a thimble's-worth of analysis.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Brian Quick is a good signing....He and Boldin were the only WR's left that I was interested in.

 

This is the biggest receiving core we've ever had.....can't wait for the red zone fades

[zCommander]

15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

No I didn't miss ****, I just don't believe it. You had 2 guys butting heads about who was right and who was wrong and one obviously lost. I doubt the winner is just going to start listening now.

 

And Steve jobs wasn't a third tier employee. Hes the boss. Not that I'm knocking any of it. Big fan.

 

I guess I am looking at it differently.  2 guys can butt heads but that doesn't mean that one of them is less smart because of it. I mean after all Scot was brought in for his brilliant players eval talent. Maybe Gruden will use his board as a reference and can still deviate from it based on who is available at the time of the pick. 

 

Not knocking on Jobs either, just saying you can be high and still put out a great product. If it weren't for Steve Jobs there would be no Bill Gates and his Windows something.   

[Peregrine]

Man do we have low standards where we think winning a division title 1 in every 3 years is great, and something we would take in a 4 team division.

 

Do the Patriots feel that way?  The Steelers?  The Seahawks?  You want to make the case that Bruce Allen is average, or maybe even slightly above average?  Fine, then let him go join the Eagles.  Lets also not forget that before Scotty Mac showed up, Bruce had 1 NFC East title in 5 years.  In a 4 team division.  So you may have illusions of his success, but I dont, and will not until we actually do something meaningful, instead of getting "close" to doing something meaningful.

[dswerdlw]

Does the Quick signing eliminate the possibility of drafting a WR in first three rounds? I hope so.

[Butters20]

2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Man do we have low standards where we think winning a division title 1 in every 3 years is great, and something we would take in a 4 team division.

 

Do the Patriots feel that way?  The Steelers?  The Seahawks?  You want to make the case that Bruce Allen is average, or maybe even slightly above average?  Fine, then let him go join the Eagles.  Lets also not forget that before Scotty Mac showed up, Bruce had 1 NFC East title in 5 years.  In a 4 team division.  So you may have illusions of his success, but I dont, and will not until we actually do something meaningful, instead of getting "close" to doing something meaningful.

Maybe that standard isn't great, but it's all relative. We haven't done **** the last 20 years. So yes, I'll take 1 in 3 over being in the gutter annually. Now if we continue our current pattern for 2 or 3 more seasons, my expectations will grow accordingly. Baby steps man, let's be realistic and celebrate improvements as they are made. 

 

[arftech]

Seriously, Brian Quick?  Exactly where was the weakness on this football team last year?  C'mon Man!

 

Hail Em Up!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, arftech said:

Seriously, Brian Quick?  Exactly where was the weakness on this football team last year?  C'mon Man!

 

Hail Em Up!

 

I never get the position that it's ok to let a strength of the team get weaker when you have the opportunity to keep it a strength (and even make it stronger). As of right now Quick could be argued to be a better WR than all on the Skins' roster except Crowder and Pryor. If Doctson comes thru, then yes, give me Pryor, Doctson, Crowder, Quick and Harris as my top 5 every single day of the week.

 

Besides, I doubt anyone at Redskins Park was saying "Ok, guys...we can either sign a WR or sign a DL. Which should we sign?"

[justice98]

Quick can stretch the field, but I dont know where he fits in if Doctson is healthy.  And if Doctson isn't healthy, I don't think Quick is really good enough to cover it up. 

 

Having said that, in a perfect scenario, Quick as your #4 isn't terrible.  Maybe he just needed a QB.

19 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Brian Quick is a good signing....He and Boldin were the only WR's left that I was interested in.

 

This is the biggest receiving core we've ever had.....can't wait for the red zone fades

 

They really are gigantic.  Kirk is going to have to be really errant to miss these guys.  

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I never get the position that it's ok to let a strength of the team get weaker when you have the opportunity to keep it a strength (and even make it stronger). As of right now Quick could be argued to be a better WR than all on the Skins' roster except Crowder and Pryor. If Doctson comes thru, then yes, give me Pryor, Doctson, Crowder, Quick and Harris as my top 5 every single day of the week.

 

Besides, I doubt anyone at Redskins Park was saying "Ok, guys...we can either sign a WR or sign a DL. Which should we sign?"

 

With the way it's going to NT, it almost seems that way. But this was a nice pickup, adds a big body vet in a position that has no vets at all.

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

Quick can stretch the field, but I dont know where he fits in if Doctson is healthy.  And if Doctson isn't healthy, I don't think Quick is really good enough to cover it up. 

 

Having said that, in a perfect scenario, Quick as your #4 isn't terrible.  Maybe he just needed a QB.

 

They really are gigantic.  Kirk is going to have to be really errant to miss these guys.  

 

I like the signing too. We lost 2 vet guys in the offseason, and  Quick is the only real vet we have now, outside of Crowder who is only going into his 3rd year at the WR position.

[goskins10]

23 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Man do we have low standards where we think winning a division title 1 in every 3 years is great, and something we would take in a 4 team division.

 

Do the Patriots feel that way?  The Steelers?  The Seahawks?  You want to make the case that Bruce Allen is average, or maybe even slightly above average?  Fine, then let him go join the Eagles.  Lets also not forget that before Scotty Mac showed up, Bruce had 1 NFC East title in 5 years.  In a 4 team division.  So you may have illusions of his success, but I dont, and will not until we actually do something meaningful, instead of getting "close" to doing something meaningful.

 

I can only speak for myself but my standards are extremely high. Based on my time here so are the standards of just about very person on this board. Just because people - including myself - point out improvement does not mean anyone is satisfied.

 

The point being made is that there are signs of improvement. Choose to ignore that if you want, but while it's been slow there are sign of improvement. Yes, we are 1 of only 11 teams in the NFL that have won 2 divisions and had 3 winning season in the last 5. Is that good enough? Of course not! To say so would be absurd. Just as absurd as questioning someone's standards. It's a fact. There are signs of improvement. That's all that's being said. Nothing more - nothing less.

 

Clearly we all want better.

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

You have to factor in poor QB play when talking about Quick's production....This is a good signing.

 

I still hope we draft a WR in the late rounds...maybe someone who can return kicks.....Someone who can compete with Harris and Grant...I don't want both of those guys on the roster.

[RandyHolt]

Tall Boys! It is high time we finally have starting WRs taller than 6'0". I feel like it's been a decade. Sure its not the key to a super bowl but then again our sub 6 footers haven't been either. 

 

I think the east stocking up on WRs had a hand in this acquisition.  Or, I don't want to think of the alternative.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

With the way it's going to NT, it almost seems that way. But this was a nice pickup, adds a big body vet in a position that has no vets at all.

 

I like the signing too. We lost 2 vet guys in the offseason, and  Quick is the only real vet we have now, outside of Crowder who is only going into his 3rd year at the WR position.

 

yeah, can't have Crowder as the veteran, no matter how much of a stud I think he is. This is actually a very young WR corp so far, with Quick being the oldest of the group.

 

 

7 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Tall Boys! It is high time we finally have starting WRs taller than 6'0". I feel like it's been a decade. Sure its not the key to a super bowl but then again our sub 6 footers haven't been either. 

 

I think the east stocking up on WRs had a hand in this acquisition.  Or, I don't want to think of the alternative.

 

 

 

Do the Cowboys have any CBs left on their roster? lol...

[Guardshock]

3 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

You have to factor in poor QB play when talking about Quick's production....This is a good signing.

 

I still hope we draft a WR in the late rounds...maybe someone who can return kicks.....Someone who can compete with Harris and Grant...I don't want both of those guys on the roster.

 

 

What's your beef with Harris? Definitely an up and coming reciever. Seemed to have trust of KC last year. He's also a cousin and trains with Keenan Allen.