Dukes and Skins

2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

It is also a FACT. That Mcdowell took A LOT of plays off last year. As well as a FACT that some scouts think he is lazy and plays with no passion. And yes. Was I exaggerating about 90%? Sure. But the tape I watched from 2016. At least 75% of the time Mcdowell was a non factor in games. Now he played hurt some last year. And they moved him all over the line. But you cant condone laziness in any circumstance. And his laziness shows up on tape for all to see.

 

"Lazy" and "lack of motor" is a common criticism among 300 pound DL prospects.  Have you seen the Brantley tape?

 

"There's really not a lot of hoopla about the interior defensive linemen in this year's draft class. Like many years, there are those with great size and quickness, but whose motor is questioned by scouts and media members alike.

 

General managers and coaches will tell you, however, that many college defensive linemen are just on the field for too long. In the NFL, they are likely to be rotational players until they've matured to the point where they give full effort on every snap -- and then they are off the field as the sub-package group comes in, unless they've earned a spot there.

 

Don't be surprised if the guys that are described as inconsistent, or even lazy, among draft analysts become valuable contributors at the next level as their snaps are limited to one-half or two-thirds of the team's total."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800427/article/2017-nfl-draft-jonathan-allen-leads-interior-dline-class

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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Jon Allen is the only DL prospect I want to draft in the 1st or 2nd.  The other guys have too many issues, holes with their game, etc.  I'd rather start taking the raw but physically talented guys in the 3rd/4th and coach them up.  Such as Nazair Jones, Carlos Watkins, Chris Wormley, and Grover Stewart.  Then there are possible later Day 3 picks such as Charles Walker or Ryan Glasgow.

 

I want to stay away from Caleb Brantley and Montravius Adams.  They're inconsistent.  Both of those players do 1 thing well, and when they can't do that 1 thing, they're bad.  Not average, but bad.  I doubt in their rookie years they'll be able to contribute, by suddenly being reliable every play.  So if they need time to develop that consistency, why not draft guys who have higher potential anyways?

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Posted (edited)

Cooley breakdown on Barnett and Brantley. My attention was divided when he was talking about both players, so I recall the big picture but missed some of the details. 

 

Brantley:  He loves the guy.  He thinks is as talented athletically as McDowell (who he doesn't like) and S. Thomas (who he likes).  He can penetrate.  He can fill in at the nose if needed.  He commands double teams.  He thinks this is the guy the D line is missing.  He said he's read that some compare him to Aaron Donald and Cooley thinks he plays in that mold.  He has a total man crush on him.

 

Barnett:  from the parts I heard he said he'd draft him at #17 but explained more from what I heard of what he didn't like about him than what he liked.  He has a quick move to the outside and better hips-flexibility than Kerrigan (Kerrigan is almost becoming a punch line in his reviews as to what he doesn't like), he has a good feel for where the QB is, and gets to him in a short line.  He think's he's the real deal and will be good.  Good at stopping the run.  He said he isn't quick twitched.  He doesn't have enough moves.  He doesn't really have a good move to the inside, isn't fast enough to chase down running backs and doesn't have good change of direction ability.

 

Sheehan then got into a global summary of who they reviewed this week and this was what was said more or less:

 

He wouldn't touch McDowell, McKinley and Harris.

 

He would draft McCaffrey in a heart beat.

 

He likes Charlton but not for our scheme.

 

He likes Cook and would take him.  He likes Barnett and would take him.  He might take Barnett over Cook based on need.

 

He loves Foster and Reddick.  He prefers Reddick.  He digs Foster but his concern is the way he tackles would lead to more injuries-stingers in the NFL.

 

He didn't go back to Brantley again in conversation but when they talked about him initially, Sheehan goes to him that they might be able to get him in the 2nd round, Cooley goes he'd love that but wouldn't flinch at taking him at #17.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I've posted why I think Cook will drop to round 2, or at best late round 1, I don't buy the mocks, the rumors, or any of that, I buy how teams react to the various sources of information they have to work with. With that being said, here's my argument about the difficulty of assessing Cook in combo with Mixon, Fournette and McCaffrey, and maybe the nicest piece of analytic support for the drafting of Cook ahead of all the guys save Mixon (and even possibly above him: My arguments pro-Cook:

 

 

 

OK, got you.  I was talking strictly about mocks.  And yeah he's commonly in the late first.  As for the 2nd round on occasion, yes but rare.  There is an article floating around somewhere suggesting that he can drop to the 2nd.  You got me if he does one way or another.  I was simply saying that of all the mocks I pore over for fun -- Cook as a 2nd rounder at this moment is rare.  McShay-Kiper dance with the idea if I recall in one of their back and forth mocks, he bounced into the 2nd.  

 

Cook to me is among a number of players that are just all over the map in mocks -- mostly commonly later first round or going to Tampa at 19.  I've just not seen the majority of them having him in the 2nd round -- and that was my point.   I got a hard time seeing him go down that far if there is anything to the buzz that Tampa digs him.  And I've seen in multiple mocks now the Giants take him -- I can see the rationale, they got a great defense but a subpar running game -- you add a dynamic running back into the mix, watch out.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I also really like Brantley. Would be amazing to get both McDowell and Brantley. If we could get 3 out of Jarrad Davis, Malik McDowell and Caleb Brantley I would be ecstatic. Those three are my favorite players when excluding the unrealistic top-10 players.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

IAre we supposed to give up on Cook because of the tests? I'm a big believer in the importance of the 3 cone, and the combine, but knowing that FSU's line play has not been what it once was during the bulk of Cook's time there (FSU featured sub top 20 line play for the top 20 RB's in this class, in other words, of the top 20 ranked RB's in this class, FSU's line was worth than all of those corresponding lines), it underlines how hugely impressive he was as FSU's starting tailback. He destroyed every good team he ever played against with the exception of Louisiville in '16 and Houston in their bowl game following the '15 season, both of which can somewhat be explained (Louisville jumped out to an early 14-0 lead, extended it to 35-10 before the half and that was all she wrote, same deal with the bowl game where FSU slept walked through the first half and quickly fell behind 21-3 to Houston before again, being forced to throw all game). 

IPoor showing in the agility-based three-cone drill at the Combine, Cook’s elusiveness wasn’t an issue at all in his data. In fact, Cook is fourth in the 2017 class behind Joe Mixon, Kareem Hunt, and Christian McCaffrey in missed tackles forced by elusiveness (defined as “cutting” in space or in tight quarters) on a per attempt basis.."

Really, really confounding prospect...."

 

 


 

 

 

Great post by the way on your end, a lot of detail in it.  I enjoyed reading it.  

 

I've watched Cook more than any prospect just because I just happened to watch a lot of FSU games last year.  And I admit I became infatuated with him just from casual watching.  I haven't really bothered to dissect his game like other prospects for the simple reason that I've seen him enough in real time and trust my eyes on him.  PFF ranks him as the top back, Brugler ranks him as the top back and I buy into Casserly's rap that 7 teams told him he's their top running back.   He has his fans out there.  

 

Cook himself said the other day his top asset is his vision.  I just went through PFF's metrics and among the top running backs Cook was tied with Kamara on their elusive rating metric -- with a rating well above for example Joe Mixon.    He plays that way IMO, he's slippery when he needs to be and as Cooley pointed out, he's hard to take down in open field.  He ran in the 4.4's in his pro day and to use a cliche its easy to see he plays fast.    He's just a fun watch for me and I think he'd add some juice to this team.  He's not my top pick right now at #17 but I wouldn't mind them taking him at all, I'd dig it.  

 

I didn't really notice him as a run blocker and it was interesting to me that Cooley pointed him out as being good on that front.  Another draft geek agreed with Cooley's take on that front too but I know some disagree.  I might watch some old games of his soon to zone in on that because I didn't pay attention to it one way or another during the college season.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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4 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

About te McDowell stuff. Looked at 15 mock drafts and wrote down where McDowell was taken. 10 of them had him outside the first round. One had him going to us at 17, that was also the highest that he was mocked in does 15 drafts. 

 

So I think we can say that McDowell probally is not the BPA in the first. Right now it even looks pretty easy to pick him up early in the second (not that we have a pick in that range right now). 

 

This is one of does draft where I don't feel strongly about I player I want in the first round. I'm not feeling the RB love. I really like Peppers and Reddick but question if our coaching staff is capable of using them well. I really like Budda but 17 might feel a little high. Got the same feeling about Jarrad Davis at 17. I really like Taco a lot but I don't think he fits our D well. I.m.o. you need to use him as a 4-3 DE. That is his natural position. 

 

 

 

I just can't see the justification for taking him in round 1. There is way too much baggage, even w/the top 5 overall upside. We've had our own issues w/players that lacked motivation, possibly love for the game and had attitudes before (see Michael Westbrook for one notorious example), and there is a history of these guys failing at an unusually high rate considering draft pedigree. That's why the Nkmediche example is a sort of good one. Nkemdiche paid a 30 slot penalty for a sketchy final year and falling out of a window after getting baked. He was generally the consensus #1 overall prospect heading into the '15 season in the summer of '15. At the time I thought the Cardinals selection of him was a steal at slot because the discount for the poor season, and falling out the window was already baked into the slotting where the Cardinals selected him. Instead of using a top 3 overall pick and corresponding cash on Nkemdiche, the Cardinals were selecting him after around 29 guys or so had been picked, a huge discount in terms of player potential versus draft pedigree. That's why if you want a McDowell or a Mixon, selecting them in late round 1 or round 2 makes a lot of sense if that's where the feel of the draft is going. If a La'El Collins situation is developing, maybe you wait till the tail end of round 3. Both McDowell, and Mixon represent excellent potential values if they fall as expected-both are top 5-10 talents in this draft.

 

I wouldn't have a problem selecting either of them so long as it wasn't with a top 30 pick in the case of McDowell and a top 15 pick in the case of Mixon. You do have to read the tea leaves on Mixon though and it's unclear where or how far Mixon will fall but his value is #1 to #2 overall RB in the class, and unlike McDowell, his ability to translate his skill set, and avoid being sabotaged by motivational questions aren't genuine concerns, it's just off the field scumbaggery. 

 

To me I'd take McDowell with a sub-50 pick, and I'd play selecting Mixon based upon expectations and word around the league, I've heard he could go as high as top 20 according to a packers scout who was overheard at his pro day, to as low as La'El Collins. Figuring out where he will go based upon the scuttlebutt could be huge as selecting him would flat out solve our RB issues and at a seemingly very, very cheap cost. And yes, Cook, if he falls, would make a lot of sense in a trade down in round 2. 

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30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, got you.  I was talking strictly about mocks.  And yeah he's commonly in the late first.  As for the 2nd round on occasion, yes but rare.  There is an article floating around somewhere suggesting that he can drop to the 2nd.  You got me if he does one way or another.  I was simply saying that of all the mocks I pore over for fun -- Cook as a 2nd rounder at this moment is rare.  McShay-Kiper dance with the idea if I recall in one of their back and forth mocks, he bounced into the 2nd.  

 

Cook to me is among a number of players that are just all over the map in mocks -- mostly commonly later first round or going to Tampa at 19.  I've just not seen the majority of them having him in the 2nd round -- and that was my point.   I got a hard time seeing him go down that far if there is anything to the buzz that Tampa digs him.  And I've seen in multiple mocks now the Giants take him -- I can see the rationale, they got a great defense but a subpar running game -- you add a dynamic running back into the mix, watch out.

 

 

If 3 QB's get drafted in the first 20 picks as some are now suggesting, all the Mocks go out the window

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I would not draft Barnett....I'd rather have a Ryan Anderson type in the 2nd round.....Barnett is too similar to the guys we already have.

 

I would take Brantley over McDowell any day, but would rather do it in the 2nd round or if they trade down.

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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-how-obi-melifonwu-has-gone-from-an-unknown-to-a-likely-first-round-pick/

 With that in mind, there is no shortage of potential landing spots for Melifonwu. His strike zone probably starts forming around pick 17 (Washington's former GM, Scot McCloughan was high on the safety, for what it's worth) and runs through the Saints with the last pick in the top round. If Adams and Hooker both go in the top 10 picks, it only increases the odds of more safeties being selected next Thursday. 

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1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

"Lazy" and "lack of motor" is a common criticism among 300 pound DL prospects.  Have you seen the Brantley tape?

Don't be surprised if the guys that are described as inconsistent, or even lazy, among draft analysts become valuable contributors at the next level as their snaps are limited to one-half or two-thirds of the team's total."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800427/article/2017-nfl-draft-jonathan-allen-leads-interior-dline-class

 

Warren Sapp used to take plays off as a pro - - it was the price of those unstoppable moments when he would absolutely disrupt an offense.  IMO there's a huge difference between a guy who takes off some plays and an underachiever.  A guy who has the talent but who's heart is not in it won't last long in the NFL. 

 

I'm just hoping the Skins don't get trapped in the pick order with this "deep" draft.  Lots of talent but no true value when the Skins pick.  We wait till the 2nd and the guys they want are gone. Repeat in the 3rd.   

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some say this might be the best draft as for defensive players of all time.   The two positions that jump out seems to be safety and corner.   Some say edge rusher, too.    It's a decent one for MLB, too.  But D line unfortunately isn't one of those bounty positions. 

 

I was struggling to put my finger on it but Cooley I think explained it well -- one of the reasons the first round could be wild especially early on is there isn't always good fits in terms of need matching up to the teams picking.  And if you need a QB or O lineman you got to reach because the draft is weak on both counts.

 

From our stand point, DT unfortunately isn't one of the stacked positions.  So if for example you love Jonathan Allen and think there is a huge gap between him and whomever you have graded next on the board whether its McDowell, Brantley, Wormley, etc -- then do you trade up for him, if he falls?

 

 

 

 

I don't really buy that, I will say one thing, in terms of bests all time, it's right there with '10 in terms of the best TE class ever. There are 3 guys with potnetial All pro potential in Howard, Engram and Njoku, there are another 3-5 guys with pro bowl to very good potential: in everett, Shaheen, Hodges, Butt etc. Very deep in terms of top end talent, although guys like Engram and Hodges are tweeners. 

 

It definitely is a very high end draft in terms of defense, I've heard repeated references to the class being quite top heavy in defensive talent overall (18-20 of the top 25 guys are viewed as defensive prospects), also heard that the draft is very deep after that at positions like CB and DB. The flaws appear to be in edge rushers in particular. 

 

I expect us to take advantage of this depth through adding defensive talent early, before trying to add a foundation RB, and one of those stud TE's. then again who knows, things are obviously in flux. 

 

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I'm completely sold on Jarrad Davis at #17. He's had some injury issues, but if we're talking about overall talent and football smarts he's probably at the top of my board now. The speed our defense would have with Zach Brown and Jarrad Davis roaming the middle would be something we haven't seen for a long time. If we get the best available DT in the 2nd I am even more pumped for the 2017 season then I already am. 

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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Citation Needed.png

 

 

You're apparently forgetting how many draft "busts" happen because a guy throws out amazing combine numbers that don't really reflect his production, flies up the draft, and then doesn't produce.

 

No I'm not, I'm arguing, as the history of the draft backs up, that reaching certain numbers in certain drills is more directly correlated with future success in the NFL, than relying on tape, and scout observations. There's no perfect way to do this, and I'm perfectly aware that there are some combine warriors that simply can't translate their gifts, whether it be opportunity and situation or just a lack of ability (McKinnon so far looks like that), but I also know that #'s allow you to remove biases, and that historically analysis of certain aspects of the combine and certain metrics have proven much more reliable in making projections than counting stats or tape. There are plenty of mistakes utilizing both systems, and guys like Kamara are an interesting inbetween. He's not terribly impressive on tape, but hugely impressive at the combine, and yet terribly unimpressive again when it comes to analytics w/regards to his actual work as a back using higher level analytical tools. 

 

There's no perfect way to project these things, but removing the biases that come from tape is hugely important when possible, and while tape obviously should be a part of evaluation, it shouldn't be the only part and not the most important in some ways either. 

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4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm completely sold on Jarrad Davis at #17. He's had some injury issues, but if we're talking about overall talent and football smarts he's probably at the top of my board now. The speed our defense would have with Zach Brown and Jarrad Davis roaming the middle would be something we haven't seen for a long time. If we get the best available DT in the 2nd I am even more pumped for the 2017 season then I already am. 

 

I would prefer Cunningham over Davis myself. And I prefer Foster over both of them. Foster's combine has turned into a disaster. And that is a serious problem. I mean that is the one day of the entire draft process that you cant screw up. And he did. We will see how far he falls from it. But if we get Foster at 17 I would be ecstatic.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I would prefer Cunningham over Davis myself. And I prefer Foster over both of them. Foster's combine has turned into a disaster. And that is a serious problem. I mean that is the one day of the entire draft process that you cant screw up. And he did. We will see how far he falls from it. But if we get Foster at 17 I would be ecstatic.

 

I love Foster as a prospect as well, but I feel like there might be some underlying issues going on with him. I've always thought the ILB's in this draft were #1 Foster, #2 Davis, but Davis isn't as far behind as people think. He's actually bigger and faster than Foster. Injuries are really the only concern I have with him. He's killing his team interviews and appears to be a football junkie. 

 

Cunningham is a good player, but one that I would rather have in the 2nd round. He racked up a lot of tackles for Vanderbilt, but I feel like that's because he was far and away the best player on his defense. I also think he arm tackles a bit too much, but in the end it doesn't matter as long as you get the man down. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

If 3 QB's get drafted in the first 20 picks as some are now suggesting, all the Mocks go out the window

 

I've seen that happen in some mocks.  And its arguably likely to happen if there is something to the buzz on Mahomes.

 

Judging by most mocks right now -- likely go before 17

Category 1

Garrett

Fournette

McCaffrey (I could put him in the other category but the buzz seems hot he goes before 17)

Adams

J. Allen

Lattimore

Foster

M. Hooker

OJ Howard

Trubisky

S. Thomas

 

All over the place including before #17

Category 2

Barnett

Charlton

Harris

M. Williams

C. Robinson or R. Ramczyk

Reddick (some buzz indicates he might belong on the top list)

Conley

Humphrey

Mahomes 

Watson

J. Ross

D. Njoku

 

So you got 11 players give or take as pretty commonly taken before #17.  McCaffrey you can argue either way but I've heard enough draft geeks say recently he might go top 10 so stuck him as top 16.  Reddick might belong there too for the same reason.  

 

Conley is often in category 1.  If  Mahomes, Watson, Conley, Reddick, Humphrey sneak into the top 16.  And I think that's possible.  Heck what if a team picks a receiver like M. Williams or J. Ross.  Then it might be in play for 1 or 2 of the players that seemed unrealistic weeks ago: Foster or Hooker or Adams or Allen drop to #17 IMO.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I got a sneaking suspicion that Foster, McCaffery, Peppers, and Cook are all sitting there at our pick. Then what?

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@fordranger76My head says trade back if possible.  Don't see Peppers as a fit for us for multiple reasons.  The rest I'd be fine with... I suppose.

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I would prefer Cunningham over Davis myself. And I prefer Foster over both of them. Foster's combine has turned into a disaster. And that is a serious problem. I mean that is the one day of the entire draft process that you cant screw up. And he did. We will see how far he falls from it. But if we get Foster at 17 I would be ecstatic.

 

Diluted urine would concern me if he has a history of drug issues but he doesn't.  There were some draft geeks not that long ago talking about Foster might even be the 2nd pick in the draft.  The series of mishaps with Foster doesn't bother me -- at least based on what's out there now -- I don't know what the teams know.   But Foster wouldn't even be in the conversation at #17 in all likelihood if it weren't for all of this stuff.   So I see it as good luck if anything. 

 

I like to think about certain players as to would I like to see them play within the division against the Redskins -- and would I like to see Foster for example to drop past our pick at #17 and watch him play for the Giants -- heck no.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/mayock/0ap3000000790378/Mike-Mayock-compares-Reuben-Foster-to-Luke-Kuechly

13 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

I got a sneaking suspicion that Foster, McCaffery, Peppers, and Cook are all sitting there at our pick. Then what?

 

Doubt McCaffrey is there.  I'd go Foster.   I wouldn't even consider Peppers. 

 
 
 
 

John Keim Retweeted Matt Miller

True. Among a group I believe they like at 17.

John Keim added,

Matt MillerVerified account @nfldraftscout
Haason Reddick may end up in Washington. Heard from a source they really like him.
Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, got you.  I was talking strictly about mocks.  And yeah he's commonly in the late first.  As for the 2nd round on occasion, yes but rare.  There is an article floating around somewhere suggesting that he can drop to the 2nd.  You got me if he does one way or another.  I was simply saying that of all the mocks I pore over for fun -- Cook as a 2nd rounder at this moment is rare.  McShay-Kiper dance with the idea if I recall in one of their back and forth mocks, he bounced into the 2nd.  

 

Cook to me is among a number of players that are just all over the map in mocks -- mostly commonly later first round or going to Tampa at 19.  I've just not seen the majority of them having him in the 2nd round -- and that was my point.   I got a hard time seeing him go down that far if there is anything to the buzz that Tampa digs him.  And I've seen in multiple mocks now the Giants take him -- I can see the rationale, they got a great defense but a subpar running game -- you add a dynamic running back into the mix, watch out.

 

I hear you, but mocks are insanely unreliable because teams are notorious for lying to reporters and planting information and just changing their minds. There's a beat reporter or columnist, forget which, who covers Green Bay whose apparently consistently won the "most accurate mock," award and his hit rate is 11/32. Essentially just a touch above 33%. Not terribly impressive in terms of accuracy, not his fault, of course, hell he's the best at it. But still it tells you how unreliable and difficult it is to project based on cntacts and what you're hearing. 

 

Also note that mocks are predicated upon different premises. Some mocks are meant to project what a writer thinks will happen, some are meant to project what the mocker thinks teams will do based on their needs but not w/o contacts and rumors as assists, and some are simply based on a given mockers projected top 32. I think that's part of the reason there is such inconsistency. We also struggle to consistently know which mockers actually have legit contacts and which don't, seems obvious the Green Bay guy must have good contacts, but a lot of others can end up being "useful idiots" for front offices like Will McDonough and Fred Edelstein who were constantly used as tools to leak information a team wanted made public in their own interest.

 

You may be right. In terms of talent and risk assessment, I think Cook is worth a pick from about 15 and below, the agility concern is a big one for me because I dont understand the discrepancy between the performance in the drill and what you see on the field, these kinds of discrepancy's are quite rare, add in the shoulder deal and the fumbles and I'm a bit concerned, the off field stuff sounds like basically a collection of minor offenses that anybody in college could get in trouble for (and the reporting on the incident w/a women backs up the idea of a mis-identification of the assailant, multiple witnesses say it had zilch to do with Cook, and the jury agreed-who cares about bb guns, and the animal thing sounds quite mild compared to Ishamel Zamora's video or Vick's behavior), I'm a fan, heck I plan on picking him ahead of Fournette and maybe McCaffrey in Dynasty drafts pending landing spot :). 

 

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1 hour ago, fordranger76 said:

I got a sneaking suspicion that Foster, McCaffery, Peppers, and Cook are all sitting there at our pick. Then what?

 

Foster. Best talent available. As long as we do a full work up in terms of background check. 

 

This is a fairly deep RB class and the top end of the '18 class is fantastic too. McCaffery is great, but so are Cook, Mixon, Guice,Barkley, maybe Chubb, as well as interesting options in tier 2 this year like Perine, Foreman, McNichols, Hunt etc. 

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Posted (edited)

33 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I hear you, but mocks are insanely unreliable because teams are notorious for lying to reporters and planting information and just changing their minds. There's

Also note that mocks are predicated upon different premises. Some mocks are meant to project what a writer thinks will happen, some are meant to project what the mocker thinks teams will do based on their needs but not w/o contacts and rumors as assists, and some are simply based on a given mockers projected top 32. I think that's part of the reason there is such inconsistency. We also struggle to consistently know which mockers actually have legit contacts and which don't, seems obvious the Green Bay guy must have good contacts, but a lot of others can end up being "useful idiots" for front offices like Will McDonough and Fred Edelstein who were constantly used as tools to leak information a team wanted made public in their own interest.

 

You may be right. In terms of talent and risk assessment, I think Cook is worth a pick from about 15 and below, the agility concern is a big one for me because I dont understand the discrepancy between the performance in the drill and what you see on the field, these kinds of discrepancy's are quite rare, add in the shoulder deal and the fumbles and I'm a bit concerned, the off field stuff sounds like basically a collection of minor offenses that anybody in college could get in trouble for (and the reporting on the incident w/a women backs up the idea of a mis-identification of the assailant, multiple witnesses say it had zilch to do with Cook, and the jury agreed-who cares about bb guns, and the animal thing sounds quite mild compared to Ishamel Zamora's video or Vick's behavior), I'm a fan, heck I plan on picking him ahead of Fournette and maybe McCaffrey in Dynasty drafts pending landing spot :). 

 

 

Sure but my point wasn't about the value of mocks but citing that the predominant buzz among draft geeks via their mocks is that Cook could fall to the late first -- but very few were saying 2nd round with an exception or two.   I thought you were arguing draft geek perception so I stuck to that point apples to apples.  My main point though about Cook as for falling into the 2nd round centered about the buzz around Tampa taking him at #19 and Casserly saying if I recall 7 teams outright told him that Cook was their favorite back in the draft.   Based on that I am purely guessing that Cook doesn't fall into the 2nd.

 

You aren't alone in the notion that he could fall in the 2nd.   I was just saying i am guessing he doesn't.  And at this given time most of the draft geeks (not all of them) (who claim they have sources with teams) have not dropped Cook into the 2nd.  But like I said -- Kiper-McShay are coming close and have done it in one of the recent back and forth mocks.  I recall another one that had him in the 2nd, too.  But I don't recall where.  It's certainly possible it goes down.  

 

 I don't really care about the perception stuff in the context of when I really dig a player.  In those cases, I get jazzed if they are taken in the draft regardless of everyone's perception about it.  I am more interested in perception when I feel uncertain about a player.  It was sort of Cooley's point today on Brantley, he notices he's a 2nd rounder in mocks but sees him as a first round talent and would be cool with taking him at #17.  As for Dalvin Cook, if the Redskins take him at #17, I doubt they will get slammed that he was a reach -- even if arguably he could drop lower.    On Cook, for what its worth the buzz seems to be Tampa wants him at #19 and you see him go there in some mocks.

 

As for Cook the player and your perception of him, I like reading your assessment.  Good detail.  Good stuff.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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