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Need some advice, ex-wife and child visitation opinions


codeorama

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Ok, as some of you know, I'm divorced but have custody of my child.  My ex left when he was 2. He's 10 now.  

 

Over the course of the past 8 years, she averages seeing him 2 times per year, about 3 days during Christmas break and about 8 days in the summer.

 

She moved to Florida and my son and I live in Va.

 

My son has never really wanted to go visit her. (I do not ever badmouth her and I actually encourage him to go and have fun.  It's always the worst time ever for me though, but I suck it up).

 

Every time he goes, he complains that he is bored.  While he is with her, he's never allowed to do what he wants, he literally is expected to just sit and watch TV, not even shows he wants to watch, but what ever someone else has on.  (His words, not mine).

 

He's always promised to go to amusement parks but something always falls through.  He did get to go to Disney last year but didn't enjoy it. Said it was for kids.  He likes roller coasters etc...

 

So, two things:

 

1. My ex's mom is visiting this weekend with my ex's sister in law who has 2 young daughters.  My ex contacts me and asks if they can see my son.  I say of course, however, they expect him to stay with them in a hotel for 3 days.  The look on my son's face said it all.  He is fine with visiting, etc... but basically they expect him to just be with them for 3 straight days and they think that's ok.  

 

2. For this summer, my ex is asking for my son to visit for 2 weeks.  First, he doesn't like flying. She has repeatedly tried to talk him into flying by himself. He won't and I wouldn't allow it anyway. So she has to fly here to get him and then bring him back as well.  I understand that its not convenient for her, but she chose to move away.  Her issue, not mine.  Second, he really doesn't want to go at all. I told her it was too long.  Part of the issue is that my son is very active. He plays Little League baseball as well as travel ball and plays football.  He doesn't have time to just pack up for 2 weeks. He misses out on his life.  

My thing is that I've tried to be considerate and not hurt his mother's feelings. But I know that he has told his friends that he doesn't have a mother and she's just someone he's forced to visit 2 times per year.

 

I've tried to talk to him about communicating what he thinks on his own without hurting her feelings, but she guilt trips him.  When I told her about 2 weeks being too long, she just said "I'll talk to him".

 

I get that his mother wants to see him but at the same time, I could have never left my child.  So I don't get it. She chose to leave.  She has gone months and not even called him, but then expects to play happy family for extended times.

 

My son doesn't even spend that kind of time with my parents.  

 

How can I have "the talk" with my ex and get her to understand reality without being a total ass?

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Tough spot, man.  Your sons situation feels vividly similar to my own.  My mom and dad were never married and my dad didn't live several states away but very similar in regards to how I felt about visiting and spending time with that side of the family.  Its a weird feeling because most assume that I hate my dad, but really I'm just indifferent.  Sounds like your son will experience the same feelings.

 

I think the only thing you can do to soften the blow when speaking with her is to explain that your son likes routine and his life is in Virginia.  His friends and his activities are there.  Less you vs. her, more what he has here vs. there.

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I'm not a parent Code but she chose to leave her child behind. I do think it's good that she's trying to develop some of a relationship but I wonder if it's more her feeling guilty?

With that said I think you have to lay the hammer down. You've been the only parent he's had for years and that's not your fault, it's hers. She needs to understand that you dictate the visits and it needs to be comfortable for you and your son. He's a kid, it's not right for her to inconvenience him because he didn't ask for this. Again, I'm not a parent Code but you seem like a good dude. I think you'll sort everything out but you've just got to make sure your boy is happy. That's really all that matters.

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Sometimes you just have to sound like an ass.

Frankly, if she's told that he doesn't want to go because he doesn't really like being so bored, it may shake her enough to try a little harder.

 

A lot depends on the law.. what's your agreement say? if she gets two weeks, she gets two weeks unless there's abuse or something that can be proven beyond "he's bored".

 

As for him,, let him know it isn't long he "has" to go, and the day may come that he'll wish he did.

 

~Bang

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As for him,, let him know it isn't long he "has" to go, and the day may come that he'll wish he did.

 

~Bang

I'm not a parent and hesitant to speak on this issue beyond saying I really feel for you and your son but this is what came to mind reading your post Code.  Being bored for a couple weeks is part of life sometimes and it's not that bad.   He may very well wish he'd had a better relationship with his mom at some point and the lack of trying shouldn't be on his (or your) side of things.  So long as there's no danger.

 

I might consider getting him a phone if his friends have them.  10 is probably a little too early but that would depend on him.  These kids today can burn up an awful lot of hours on a smartphone.  <old man talk>

 

I acknowledge that there is probably more to this than you could or would want to share so, of course, it should defer to your best judgement.

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Tough spot, man.  Your sons situation feels vividly similar to my own.  My mom and dad were never married and my dad didn't live several states away but very similar in regards to how I felt about visiting and spending time with that side of the family.  Its a weird feeling because most assume that I hate my dad, but really I'm just indifferent.  Sounds like your son will experience the same feelings.

 

I think the only thing you can do to soften the blow when speaking with her is to explain that your son likes routine and his life is in Virginia.  His friends and his activities are there.  Less you vs. her, more what he has here vs. there.

 

Wow, thank you, you definitely hit the nail on the head. You put into better words than I could. I definitely feel that my ex thinks that I don't want him to see her which isn't the case. I only care about what he wants/needs.  IMO, she's making it worse because as you said, she's forcing him to miss his routine and what he wants to do. I see him becoming more resistant as he gets older. Possibly holding a grudge.

Thank you

I'm not a parent Code but she chose to leave her child behind. I do think it's good that she's trying to develop some of a relationship but I wonder if it's more her feeling guilty?

With that said I think you have to lay the hammer down. You've been the only parent he's had for years and that's not your fault, it's hers. She needs to understand that you dictate the visits and it needs to be comfortable for you and your son. He's a kid, it's not right for her to inconvenience him because he didn't ask for this. Again, I'm not a parent Code but you seem like a good dude. I think you'll sort everything out but you've just got to make sure your boy is happy. That's really all that matters.

 

You kind of nailed it as well.  She originally gave me full custody immediately but attempted to get joint custody due to guilt laid on her by her friends.  Ultimately, her parents told her to give custody to me.  

I'm not a parent and hesitant to speak on this issue beyond saying I really feel for you and your son but this is what came to mind reading your post Code.  Being bored for a couple weeks is part of life sometimes and it's not that bad.   He may very well wish he'd had a better relationship with his mom at some point and the lack of trying shouldn't be on his (or your) side of things.  So long as there's no danger.

 

I might consider getting him a phone if his friends have them.  10 is probably a little too early but that would depend on him.  These kids today can burn up an awful lot of hours on a smartphone.  <old man talk>

 

I acknowledge that there is probably more to this than you could or would want to share so, of course, it should defer to your best judgement.

 

I see what you are saying and in a lot of ways, that's kind of his mom's point, "Who cares if he's bored for a couple of weeks".  

 

Its not that I'm so against him being bored, that's kind of the over all label that I give it.  The truth is that he just doesn't care. His mother is extremely selfish and that's why we are not married. I've never shared anything with him about why we are not together. He doesn't remember her ever being in his life other than here and there for brief moments and he's a smart kid. He see's through her.  

Personally, if she lived 15 minutes away, I honestly don't think she'd see him all that much more.  She did live 15 minutes away for about 2 years and still rarely saw him.  

 

I've never discouraged him though, because I never want him to look back and blame me.  

At this point, for example, for this weekend, I literally told him " if you want to come home, there is nothing wrong with that, just let your grandmother know. I will bring you back and forth if needed.  But try to have fun because your grandmother misses you".

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Wow, tough spot.  You might ask your ex what she plans to do during the 2 weeks.  Of course that could start something.  I don't know your relationship.  If she has no other kids, it's likely she has no clue what a 10 year old boy is interested in.  Perhaps you could compromise into a long week, say Friday to Monday.

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Sometimes you just have to sound like an ass.

Frankly, if she's told that he doesn't want to go because he doesn't really like being so bored, it may shake her enough to try a little harder.

 

A lot depends on the law.. what's your agreement say? if she gets two weeks, she gets two weeks unless there's abuse or something that can be proven beyond "he's bored".

 

As for him,, let him know it isn't long he "has" to go, and the day may come that he'll wish he did.

 

~Bang

 

Yeah, I'm getting to that point. I've tried to be nice but she doesn't get it.  But, Again, I don't ever want to be the reason my son didn't get to see her if he wants to.

Our agreement has nothing specific because I have always let her see him when she wants to, which is little to none.  In Virginia, the first 2 years of custody determines the "Norm".  After the first 2 years, judges won't change custody unless something severe happens.

 

I'm a teacher with a master's degree. She's nothing.  She abandoned him for the first 2 years after our separation and divorce.  She established that she did nothing. She's suppose to pay me 330 dollars a month child support but NEVER has paid a dime. For 8 years.  

Wow, tough spot.  You might ask your ex what she plans to do during the 2 weeks.  Of course that could start something.  I don't know your relationship.  If she has no other kids, it's likely she has no clue what a 10 year old boy is interested in.  Perhaps you could compromise into a long week, say Friday to Monday.

 

Funny story, she is remarried to a guy who left his kid. Then of course, they immediately had a child by accident.  So, she has a 3 year old now and based on what my son tells me, she leaves him to baby sit while she does things during their visit.  Really sad.

She always says they are going to do this that and something else, but it never happens. My son tells me they just stay at home and there's nothing to do. He has called me begging to come home multiple times.  She has no idea, she always repeats "he has so much fun when he's here".  I've even considered if he just says that to "make me feel better" so I've made sure to stress to him that I'm ok and if he has fun with his mom, thats a good thing etc.. I say all the right things.  Truth is, I don't mind her seeing him, its just I feel so guilty because he doesn't want to go and then while he's there he's miserable.

Also, there is a lot that I haven't "said". I do have trust issues with her. I literally fear for my son's safety.

 

When my son was 7, she took him to water country and put her 12 year old step son "in charge of him" and sent them off on their own.  The 12 year old thought it would be fun to leave my son and hide from him. 

I went off on her about that.  She told me "its ok, we disciplined the 12 year old, we took things away".  I screamed at her that the 12 year old wasn't the problem. What adult would put a 12 year old in charge of a 7 year old at major amusement park.  The issue is that she is an f-ing moron.  She doesn't even understand how irresponsible she is.

 

Last year, she got mad because when she took my son to the beach in Florida, he refused to go in the water.  She called me and asked me to make him. I refused because first, SHE DOESN"T KNOW HOW TO SWIM and second, we don't go to the beach so he has no experience swimming in the ocean.  I told him not to go in.  He's a really good swimmer, but geez...

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She's suppose to pay me 330 dollars a month child support but NEVER has paid a dime. For 8 years.  

 

 

That's over $30,000.  I know you don't want to create an adversarial relationship, but are you seeking redress?

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That's over $30,000.  I know you don't want to create an adversarial relationship, but are you seeking redress?

 

 

 

This is a big thing for me. I've addressed it to her 1 time,  but have left it alone mostly because she asks to see him so little.  If she starts paying, she is going to feel entitled to having him more. This is an unspoken thing.  She knows that I'm not going to let him "spend the summer" with her while she's not paying but at the same time, if she does, she will push for that.  My son doesn't want that. I'm a teacher and have a mortgage and that money would help, but its not worth it to me.  Personally, I wish she would just take 100 dollars a month and put it towards a college fund.  She sucks though and nothing matters to her except for her.  I literally wish aliens would abduct her and take her to Uranus...  

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Okay, now it's sounding less like she wants to see him as much as she wants a free babysitter to escape her routine of taking care of her own kid, but without the guilt because she can rationalize it away as getting your son to spend time with family. Like...if somebody is gonna be bored, better him than me. Your ex sounds like a minor narcissist.

Keeping her parents happy with the occasional visit will likely reap better benefits - long term he may well form healthy bonds with them while remaining disinterested in his mother.

Then again, I am not a parent, so I could be wayyyyyy off base here.

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Yeah, she needs to realize that she just isn't in the picture and it's her own fault. She can't just magically see him whenever it tickles her fancy. You've been more than accommodating as far as I'm concerned.

If your son wants to see his mom, he will let you and her know. I'm certain that he's old enough to understand. It's your ex that doesn't.

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Okay, now it's sounding less like she wants to see him as much as she wants a free babysitter to escape her routine of taking care of her own kid, but without the guilt because she can rationalize it away as getting your son to spend time with family. Like...if somebody is gonna be bored, better him than me. Your ex sounds like a minor narcissist.

Keeping her parents happy with the occasional visit will likely reap better benefits - long term he may well form healthy bonds with them while remaining disinterested in his mother.

Then again, I am not a parent, so I could be wayyyyyy off base here.

 

 

No, you are spot on.  I like her parents. I always go out of my way to help them when they want to see my son.  But even they are a little flakey. When we first divorced, they talked to me privately and said they just wanted to make sure that they could see him and I told them of course they could and I've never denied them. But, they have rarely really done anything with him.  This weekend will be weird.  The grandma is staying at a hotel in town, I can literally pick him up and deliver him when ever they are doing anything, but I just don't think he wants to just hang out for 3 straight days.

 

My ex is a POS.  She is so selfish and honestly, she's not trust worthy. She makes really poor decisions.  EVERY decision I've ever made is for the benefit of my son. I've given up so much to put him first and don't regret it for a second. She has done everything for herself first.  

Yeah, she needs to realize that she just isn't in the picture and it's her own fault. She can't just magically see him whenever it tickles her fancy. You've been more than accommodating as far as I'm concerned.

If your son wants to see his mom, he will let you and her know. I'm certain that he's old enough to understand. It's your ex that doesn't.

That's how I feel.  I'm just trying to figure out how to express that to her without going to the nuclear option.  I'm afraid that what will happen is that IF he goes for 2 weeks this summer, he will never want to go again and if that's the case, I will end up just telling her that.  

Also, to all of you guys, I REALLY APPRECIATE your contributions, its really helping me to discuss this. Much appreciated. 

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Hang in there bud.  I've always been a straight shooter, so my advice would be to just tell her straight up what the issues are and how it's gonna be going forward.  She sounds very irresponsible and naive, but Liam is a bright/smart young man, so I'm sure he will continue to follow your lead on what to do (like not swimming in the ocean).  You're his rock, he knows that.

 

If you do decide to set her straight, I'd have a talk with Liam prior to that to let him know and get his thoughts on if that is something he is ok with you doing.  Speaking more so to him staying there and babysitting the entire time.  No 10 year old boy wants to do that.  I'd definitely let her know that and ask her how she thinks it makes him feel, going to spend time with his mother and having to babysit his step brother knowing she was never there.  

 

I'd also hit her up for the child support, all of it, and put all of that money into a college fund for him.  Good luck man, whatever you decide to do, it will work out in the end.  Your a good guy Code and Liam is a good kid.

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I know you don't want to do this (as you said in the OP), but I think you may need to start being an ass.  

1) You mentioned that VA law doesn't change the agreement unless something drastic happens.  Given your examples (and I believe there have been others), I would say she has done drastic things

2) Because you don't have a formal agreement and because you have tried to do the right thing, it seems you are being taken advantage of

3) She has shown herself to be irresponsible especially financially, and you are concerned about your son's safety.

 

The only thing that gives me pause is that you have a good relationship with your ex's mother, and you don't want to ruin that.

 

Another thought-if this were reversed and it were a female talking about a deadbeat dad who hadn't paid child support, rarely saw his kid and only used him for babysitting, and made poor decisions, we would all crucify the guy and tell her to have nothing to do with him.  Why is this any different?

 

I know it's easy for me to sit here and see things in black and white and make a sweeping statement like, "you need to be an ass".  I know it's difficult and you want what's best for your son.  Because you want what's best for your son, you need to be firmer with his mom.

 

Just my two cents.

Good luck.

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I know you don't want to do this (as you said in the OP), but I think you may need to start being an ass.  

1) You mentioned that VA law doesn't change the agreement unless something drastic happens.  Given your examples (and I believe there have been others), I would say she has done drastic things

2) Because you don't have a formal agreement and because you have tried to do the right thing, it seems you are being taken advantage of

3) She has shown herself to be irresponsible especially financially, and you are concerned about your son's safety.

 

The only thing that gives me pause is that you have a good relationship with your ex's mother, and you don't want to ruin that.

 

Another thought-if this were reversed and it were a female talking about a deadbeat dad who hadn't paid child support, rarely saw his kid and only used him for babysitting, and made poor decisions, we would all crucify the guy and tell her to have nothing to do with him.  Why is this any different?

 

I know it's easy for me to sit here and see things in black and white and make a sweeping statement like, "you need to be an ass".  I know it's difficult and you want what's best for your son.  Because you want what's best for your son, you need to be firmer with his mom.

 

Just my two cents.

Good luck.

 

 

Excellent points.  I think for me, its the fact that she really doesn't ask to see him much.  She "could' demand to have him for the summer and we'd have to go to court and I don't think she'd win, its the fact that I'll have to pay  for a lawyer.  She doesn't really have money for a lawyer either, so in a nutshell, I have tried not to be an ass and have accepted the small amounts of time that she has asked for.  Personally, as I said before, I wish she'd disappear, but my longterm plan has been to let her dig her own grave.  She has ON HER OWN established that she spends very little time with him. So for her to demand more isn't really going to hold up.  I know that and a lawyer has told me that.  I'm  just making sure that 1. my son isn't hurt and 2, that I keep the upper hand as I have for the past 8 years.  

I know you don't want to do this (as you said in the OP), but I think you may need to start being an ass.  

1) You mentioned that VA law doesn't change the agreement unless something drastic happens.  Given your examples (and I believe there have been others), I would say she has done drastic things

2) Because you don't have a formal agreement and because you have tried to do the right thing, it seems you are being taken advantage of

3) She has shown herself to be irresponsible especially financially, and you are concerned about your son's safety.

 

The only thing that gives me pause is that you have a good relationship with your ex's mother, and you don't want to ruin that.

 

Another thought-if this were reversed and it were a female talking about a deadbeat dad who hadn't paid child support, rarely saw his kid and only used him for babysitting, and made poor decisions, we would all crucify the guy and tell her to have nothing to do with him.  Why is this any different?

 

I know it's easy for me to sit here and see things in black and white and make a sweeping statement like, "you need to be an ass".  I know it's difficult and you want what's best for your son.  Because you want what's best for your son, you need to be firmer with his mom.

 

Just my two cents.

Good luck.

 

 

Thank you for the kind words. I'm extremely lucky, My son is a great kid. I couldn't be luckier.  (Brag mode) he is in the gifted program, gets highest scores on SOL's, straight A's, performs in Baseball and Football at a really high level and is a badass video gamer... :D

But he's a respectful kid and knows right from wrong.  I always want to do right by him.  If he wants to see his mom, I don't want to be in the way. At this point, he doesn't.  At some point, he has to advocate for himself thought and be able to communicate "some" of his thoughts.

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Another thought-since you teach (and I know teachers work during the summer, as I used to be one!), is it possible that you go down there with him (cuts down on the fear of flying) and he stays with you, and he sees her during the day?  She might say, "why are you here?  Don't you trust me?".  I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.

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Ah, well if she owes you child support and the boy does not want to go, tell her to **** off and take you to court if she wants to see him.

Or maybe you will take her to court first.

 

then take her ass to court.

Make her pay .. not for you, not for vengeance, not to hurt her. but because he deserves it.

Sometimes it's hard because she's hurt you once and you may be reticent to give her a chance to make you re-live it all..  but 30 grand is a nice nest egg for him, and it's her responsibility.

 

You and me, we've been through similar things. And while i always suggest that you should do what you can to allow your son to have a good relationship with his mom, she has obligations that need to be met. 

 

~Bang

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I think based on your first post that you seem to already have the correct outlook.  I think in the end you just have to remember that #1, your kid comes way before her hurty feelings, and #2 while "getting her to understand reality without being a total ass" is a worthy goal, in the end, it sounds like you hold pretty much all of the cards here so ultimately, she should be the one trying to play nice if she wants anything at all (and to not have to give you $30k plus interest).  

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Another thought-since you teach (and I know teachers work during the summer, as I used to be one!), is it possible that you go down there with him (cuts down on the fear of flying) and he stays with you, and he sees her during the day? She might say, "why are you here? Don't you trust me?". I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.

Thanks, but that's not an option. I don't make enough to do that but more importantly, my son plays travel baseball and he would not want to give that up.

 

I'm not "that dad" that is living the baseball dream through his son.  He is really really good and plays at a high level. He may have a future in baseball, but I have raised him to focus on school and while all of his teammates talk about being MLB players, he is pretty well grounded and says he wants to go to a good college and he asks me a lot about what schools are good, what the difference is and so on.  He has decided (lol) that he wants to be an architect.  I had to ask him if he even knew what that was.  He actually did.  Anyway, I just want him to be a kid and do the things he loves right now.

 

Its sad but in our society today, so many kids are split and is it really the right thing? I know in some cases it may be, but it can't be in all them.

My ex mentioned that her step son gave up travel baseball so he could spend the summers with his dad (and his dad, her new husband is always on the road, so he really doesn't spend any real time with him).  I thought that was pretty sad.

My case is a little different thought, my son has been without his mom since he was 2. He doesn't know any different and doesn't really care about her or have a relationship with her.

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Thanks, but that's not an option. I don't make enough to do that but more importantly, my son plays travel baseball and he would not want to give that up.

 

I'd consider telling her that she needs to come up to VA, stay in a hotel near your place to visit him.  And not to bring her 3 year old for him to babysit, to actually spend time with her first son and actually do something other than sit watching TV.

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I'd consider telling her that she needs to come up to VA, stay in a hotel near your place to visit him.  And not to bring her 3 year old for him to babysit, to actually spend time with her first son and actually do something other than sit watching TV.

 

 

She actually did that this past december. She couldn't afford the plane tickets (her brother or parents had been paying and they are out of money) so she just flew in, stayed in a hotel for 3 days and she spent 1 day with him and 2 with her friends that she grew up with... That tells you a lot doesn't it.

But I have told her that Liam preferred that and had a better time.  She doesn't care though.

What I believe will ultimately happen is that Liam will just get tired of it and say he doesn't want to go. He already has in so many words.  But he always says "I don't want to be rude".  I have gently told him that there are ways to not be rude but also tell the truth. But I know ultimately, his mom puts the guilt trip on him and he feels bad.  It sucks

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I am in the pre-separation stage. We have a kid together. This is kinda hard to explain but for the moment I am making decisions based on what would my future adult kid want me to do now, in the present. Ultimately, it leads back to me giving another and another chance, etc. 

 

Maybe think not what your son wants now but what would your 30 year old son want you to do now. I dont think I explained it right. Im not sure there is any right answer when it comes to this stuff. Half of my mental thoughts in any given day is about separation and my kid. Like you, I would get primary bc she is an unemployed alcoholic but i imagine my kid (when she is grown up and looking back) would want me to keep trying, so I keep trying. 

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I would first start by asking what you hope to accomplish? Are you trying to make it only so that your 10-year old son has the best time possible or are you hoping to help your ex forge a relationship with your son (ultimately a HUGE benefit to him)? 

 

If the former, I would follow some of the great advice in here and see if she'll come up or try to talk to her about reducing the amount of time she wants him. However, if the latter (which again seems like the ideal solution because your son gets a more engaged mother out of it), I think you need to have the difficult conversation with her about improving what she does with him when he visits. If she can be all-in for the few days per year that she has him, then maybe eventually he'll look forward to it and want to go a little more often. That's the best long-term outcome for all of you. 

 

I don't know your situation well enough to really know which of the above is the best approach, how many chances she's had to be there for him, etc. 

 

Good luck man!

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