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Would you support more Toll Roads to help pay for Metro? (DMV Area)


Renegade7

Would you support more Toll Roads in DC area to help pay for Metro?  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you support more Toll Roads in DC area to help pay for Metro?

    • Yes
      7
    • No
      19


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Premise comes from this article on front page of Washington Post:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/federal-agency-orders-new-safety-steps-after-metros-handling-of-thursday-fire/2016/05/07/2e44b6aa-1467-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html

 

I used to live in NOVA until about 8 years ago.  I'm scratching my head with how we got the money to build the Silver Line and then allowed the rest of the tracks to get this bad.  Were they planning to add that and the Purple Line to help gain more revenue for the rest of the network?

 

Down here we added tolls in Hampton Roads to help pay for some of our tunnel infrastructure (currently building a new one with additional extension straight to the Interstate).  I would say news like needed Metro repairs and the effect what will have on traffic that's already bad actually would play a factor in me trying to move up there, same with DC trying to get more control of its budget by becoming a state. 

 

Living in Portsmouth, it's killing me where the tolls are (three primary routes in and out the city because of a river).  The rumor that we will be adding to the other Interstate bridges/tunnels between north and south side Hampton Roads (one of which, I-64 is likely the primary route for tourists to Virginia Beach). I began to ease down a little.  If tolls are placed more in a way that I feel is fair in terms of shared burden to people living there, commuting there, and vacationing there, I can live with it.

 

For those still living in this area, would you support something like this and how would you do it? 

 

If I was still up there, I would prefer the majority, if possible all of it given to Metro, that way we'd know it's shared evenly among the rail and bus systems across DC, Maryland, and Virginia, as there are issues all over the network.  Just an idea, so try to be civil about it.  I feel it is a legitimate question at this point

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"Yes, as long as it's not a road I need to drive on." There, I think that'll sum up most of the responses here.  :P

 

Put some in NOVA, and Howard/Montgomery counties in MD. Last thing we need is the poorer people in DC/MD/VA having to pay a toll to fix the Metro that they need to ride.

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I'll say this about metro...

I moved to the area almost exactly 30 years ago. Back then, the metro was still new (new-ish, anyway).

I haven't ridden a whole lot in the last ten years or so, but I did twice last week.

This much I can say- Metro sucks. It's a piece of ****. Embarrassing. I have a handicapped mother in law that uses a wheelchair - but tons of stops have elevators that are out of service. No notice. (though there is a sign at metro center if you're willing to stand there for ten minutes taking note of every stop as it appears and dissappears) The trains are probably the exact same trains - carpeting, upholstery and all since I first rode 30 years ago. Disgusting (except for one brand new train I was fortunate to ride, which was nice).

All the signs, dingy, smelly underground tunnels and stops, all unchanged, unimproved as far as I can tell, except for the smart card feature, as opposed to the old paper fare card. There were problems at every station I was at- scanner thingy not recognizing your card, forcing travelers to force open the orange thingys and passing through.

Hearing about the recent problems, failed safety inspections, fires, etc, its not exactly a surprise. It's what happens with taxpayer funded endeavors. Fat cats getting fatter off the people while doing nothing to improve a ****ty, outdated product.

More money? Hell, no. I'll drive.

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Metro has been in debt since day one. 

Nothing new. 

Expanded in spite of the debt. 

They will likely never get out of debt, but they will continue to build. 

 

I don't see toll roads doing anything but forcing people to drive around them to avoid having to pay. 

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66 is already getting tolls to help it expand, so that's one major artery that wouldn't be available.

 

Not sure what other roads are wide enough that they could support toll roads without totally slowing traffic to a stop.

 

Well, MORE of a stop.  NoVA is dumb sometimes, like when route 7 drops to 25 mph with lights every 40 feet.

 

The obvious answer is to increase fares on metro, but that probably would hurt number of riders.  Commuters would stay, but if you have the choice between Uber and Metro, people would switch to Uber.

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Metro has been in debt since day one. 

Nothing new. 

Expanded in spite of the debt. 

They will likely never get out of debt, but they will continue to build. 

 

I don't see toll roads doing anything but forcing people to drive around them to avoid having to pay. 

 

That's what people said down here until they realized it cost more to avoid them then it was to just get the EzPass transponder. 

 

Way we do it down here you don't stop to pay the toll, it just scans the device in your window or taking a picture of your license plate if you don't have one, see who the vehicle is registered to, and sends them a bill in the mail. 

 

It sounds like Metro has been mismanaged for a while, but this is unsustainable.  I'd have to confirm just how far in the red they are, but I don't know if "it is what it is is going to fly anymore", not with the constant fires, threats of shutdown sections all over the system and occasionally people dying.

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Toll roads just cause more congestion around them for people who don't want to pay the tolls. the Maryland Inter-county connector for example. Expensive, and always seems practically empty.
If Metro is to be fixed, the three areas serviced need to pay a small tax. Maryland, Virginia and the District.

Make it a tiny sales tax and the money can be raised. 
But, here's what will happen.
No one will want to pay it, politicians will argue against it as if the pennies they will save you matter, and those who need the service will **** about it's safety, and someone else will die because we refuse to accept responsibility for our infrastructure.

(Oh, and here is what else will happen. The money, if raised will be wasted or stolen or misappropriated. But that's another complaint.)

 

~BangCRASHSMASHCOLLAPSECRUSH!

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I'll say this about metro...

I moved to the area almost exactly 30 years ago. Back then, the metro was still new (new-ish, anyway).

I haven't ridden a whole lot in the last ten years or so, but I did twice last week.

This much I can say- Metro sucks. It's a piece of ****. Embarrassing. I have a handicapped mother in law that uses a wheelchair - but tons of stops have elevators that are out of service. No notice. (though there is a sign at metro center if you're willing to stand there for ten minutes taking note of every stop as it appears and dissappears) The trains are probably the exact same trains - carpeting, upholstery and all since I first rode 30 years ago. Disgusting (except for one brand new train I was fortunate to ride, which was nice).

All the signs, dingy, smelly underground tunnels and stops, all unchanged, unimproved as far as I can tell, except for the smart card feature, as opposed to the old paper fare card. There were problems at every station I was at- scanner thingy not recognizing your card, forcing travelers to force open the orange thingys and passing through.

Hearing about the recent problems, failed safety inspections, fires, etc, its not exactly a surprise. It's what happens with taxpayer funded endeavors. Fat cats getting fatter off the people while doing nothing to improve a ****ty, outdated product.

More money? Hell, no. I'll drive.

 

A little of this is exaggerated. They are obviously not using trains from that long ago. Every system updates their fleet every so often. That said, putting carpet on subway trains isn't wise because it's so hard to clean. I don't know another system that does that.

 

So having lived in NYC for almost two years now, I can say that while it has its own issues, relative to the fact that it's the largest system in the world by number of stations, it's FAR more functional than the Metro. People who whine up here have no idea what it could be. On the flip side, Metro has elevators at every station even if many are out of service, escalators at every station and time signs so you know ow long until the next train not to mention cell service.

 

It could be made into a solid system again, it's just years of mismanagement and putting band-aids on a gushing wound have led it to crumble. It sounds like this new guy gets it, yeah it will suck for a year but this needed to be done a decade ago at least. It sounds like he's willing to do what needs to be done. Better to fix it now than continue operating at mediocre levels for more decades.

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I don't support toll roads at all. Roads are a public work and privatizing them continues to disadvantage the poor and empower the rich.

So, 100% absolutely not.

Yeah, and I doubly don't trust VA.

 

They have a company managing the tolls, and the fines for violations are...excessive, to say the least.

 

After the 4th offense it's $1,000 per offense, IIRC.  I've seen court cases where someone's EZPass stopped working for a week for some reason and they racked up over $10,000 in fines.  Even if someone totally ignored the system, fines above $100 per offense seems insane.

 

Adding more toll roads means more and more people getting smacked with fines that, frankly, are totally hostile to the public.

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What the Metro needs, besides functional and safe facilities, is an "outer loop". Rather than a funnel into the city, it should be a wheel with spokes.

Good luck getting the government do-nothing's to accomplish this across two states and a federal city.

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A little of this is exaggerated. They are obviously not using trains from that long ago. Every system updates their fleet every so often. That said, putting carpet on subway trains isn't wise because it's so hard to clean. I don't know another system that does that.

 

 

 

 

 

new york city begs to differ.

Which got Metro wondering, how old is the subway train you’re sitting on right now?

If you’re riding a C, J or Z train, it could have been built in 1964, the last chance to be born a baby boomer, the year Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. won the Nobel Peace Prize and when The Beatles’ “I Want to Hold Your Hand” topped the charts. A stamp cost 5 cents, and a trip to the movies $1.25.

The MTA currently has 222 of the R-32 “Brightliners” running on the C, J and Z lines.

The MTA’s youngest cars were introduced the year the Secret Service cut three agents’ assignments short, sending them home from the Netherlands after a night of drinking that left one passed out in a hotel hallway. That same year, LeBron James returned to Cleveland, and the world’s most eligible bachelor, George Clooney, got hitched. Sound familiar? It just happened. In 2014, 91 new R-188 trains were put into service on the 7 line.

The age of New York City subway trains vary by model type, and the year they were put into service.

The MTA is expecting to introduce a new class of R-179 trains, still in production upstate, in 2017 to replace the oldest trains in the system. 

***

Total number of subway cars in service: 6,383

Average age of the cars in the MTA’s fleet: 19

Oldest car: 51 years

Youngest car: 1 year

Ideal retirement age: 40 years

Age of service by subway line:

1 train: 28 to 31 years old

2 train: 12 to 15 years old

3 train: 30 to 31 years old

4 train: 10 to 15 years old

5 train: 12 to 15 years old

6 train: 10 to 30 years old

7 train: 1 to 30 years old

A train: 38 to 40 years old

B: 26 to 29 years old

C: 5 to 51 years old

D: 27 to 29 years old

E: 5 to 8 years old

F: 5 to 40 years old

G: 27 to 29 years old

J, Z: 5 to 51 years old 

L: 12 to 13 years old

M, N, Q: 5 to 8 years old

R: 5 to 40 years old

Shuttle: 27 to 40 years old

 

 

http://www.metro.us/new-york/how-old-is-your-subway-train/zsJofC---4pCZYyS6RSLQ/

 

Metro’s central train control center — tasked with ensuring the safety of thousands of passengers moving through the nation’s second-busiest rail system — is chronically understaffed, chaotic and filled with distractions, according to a federal report released Wednesday.

Staff members lack adequate training and have no formal checklists to help guide them in doing their jobs. Employees frequently ignore rules — several were seen using cellphones while working. And in other instances, because of miscommunication trains were directed into areas that should have been off-limits.

These findings and other observations are part of an unprecedented federal safety inspection of operations at the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority.........Officials found that WMATA’s maintenance departments must constantly reschedule work because they can’t get the necessary access to make needed repairs. As a result, there is a growing backlog of work dating back as far as 2012.

 

 

everything else is backlogged or out of date, but they are obviously updating the trains. ya know, because.

 

 

On the flip side, Metro has elevators at every station even if many are out of service,

 

 

but,. hey, at least they have elevators.

 

as for dc's metro system, the original cars, built in 1976, were rehabbed in 1993. and metro still uses these trains. 

 

These cars, and the 4000 series, are being retired by the 7000 series since 2015.[5] In July 2015, Metro released a request for proposals seeking a contractor to pick-up and dispose of Metro's entire remaining fleet of 1000-series railcars.[6] Of the 300 cars, less than 280 remain in active revenue service.

 

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I got on a train last week at Shady Grove that had the BICENTENNIAL Stickers on them from 1976 - granted they were completely faded, but they are what they were.

 

Some of these trains are definitely all of 40 years old, they just smell like it lol

 

A little of this is exaggerated. They are obviously not using trains from that long ago.

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Metro Rail is close to profitable, but the buses are not even close, making roughly 30 cents per dollar spent.  Every Metrorail fee hike is really a subsidy for the buses.  Too many people ride for free and they are the type of people that no one really wants to talk about.  If the buses could pay for themselves, then the rail could keep up with maintenance but it's a discussion no one wants.  

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I got on a train last week at Shady Grove that had the BICENTENNIAL Stickers on them from 1976 - granted they were completely faded, but they are what they were.

 

Some of these trains are definitely all of 40 years old, they just smell like it lol

 

Wow, I stand corrected then. That's pretty bad, you gotta phase rail fleets out faster than that. NYC still uses some old cars on trains but it's such a massive system they kind of have to. They are being phased out by 2022 though. The orange line in Boston also uses pretty old cars.

 

Either way, I think Metro has hope under this new GM. 

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