Burgold

The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

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See, my issue with that argument is when it's made at any other time of the year, people bring up entitlements. They don't want to fund welfare and all that stuff. But talk about bringing in refugees and suddenly that's their argument.

 

I read that in 2012, a single refugee in Florida is given $180/month. We're not giving these refugees much.

 

And for your last sentence, I'd advise you to look at No Excuses chart.

The currently funding of welfare has it's holes and some places are starting to have a stronger hold on who is eligible (ie. drug testing which has been the biggest argument about the funding of welfare).  You're talking about other arguments you've seen and stating that's my argument as well when it's not.

 

And I read yesterday (trying to find the numbers) but it's about 10x that amount that's being given.

 

And that's find about those numbers, things change and will change.  There will be refugees who are terrorists that sneak into a country (and have already - not necessarily the US).

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The currently funding of welfare has it's holes and some places are starting to have a stronger hold on who is eligible (ie. drug testing which has been the biggest argument about the funding of welfare).  You're talking about other arguments you've seen and stating that's my argument as well when it's not.

 

And I read yesterday (trying to find the numbers) but it's about 10x that amount that's being given.

 

And that's find about those numbers, things change and will change.  There will be refugees who are terrorists that sneak into a country (and have already - not necessarily the US).

 

Not trying to put words in your mouth. But it's just funny to me that people are suddenly worried about helping the homeless and poor, when they (not necessarily you, Steve) are opposed to them otherwise.

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Ask Mitch McConnell and Tom Coburn about killing bipartisan supported funding for homeless vets (and their kids).

Those 2 killed a $3.4 billion dollar bill back in 2010 that would have provided help.

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Taking in Syrian refugees is a basically telling ISIS to go **** themselves. That we are a proud nation who will help those in need because it's the right and honorable thing to do. We don't claim to be perfect, we don't claim our society have no social problems, but we will help those who have nothing at great risk to us because we are Americans. And we certainly will not cower in our homes.

 

 

For all the bull**** macho don't retreat reload talk, take a ****ing stand.

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Or how he (McConnell) hijacked and killed the 2014 Veterans and Health and Benefits and Military Retirement Pay and Restoration Act. That would have expanded healthcare and education for veterans.

Or the 2012 Veterans Jobs Corps Act that McConnell again killed. That act would have provided up to 20000 kobs for veterans. McConnell infamously said afterwards, "we Republicans remain resolute in our commitment to deny the Democrats anything that looks like an accomplishment in an election year".

Edited by The Evil Genius
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People fleeing war torn areas that are simply looking for a safe place to exist must be helped.  You can't claim to stand for anything good if you can't get this right. 

 

I can't understand how Christians would miss an opportunity like this.  First and foremost the bible speaks plainly about what happens to those confronted with great need that refuse to help.  Spoiler:  It's not good.  Secondly, and less important IMO, if you want to convert people to the faith here's your shot.  Welcome them in, show a tremendous outpouring of support, and encourage them to hang out.  You can't spread the word by standing around and trading bible verses with eachother for the 1000th time.  They'll probably turn you down but you never know. 

 

Personally, I love the mental image of having refugees welcomed by an army of church ladies, baring armfuls of home cooked meals, with those eyes that let slip every judgmental thought. 

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It seems to me that in the long run, the best way to ultimately defeat radical, apocalyptic jihadism is to do our very best to bring our ideal values of freedom, safety, acceptance, and multiculturalism to the world.  By refusing refugees and demonizing whole swaths of people we help fit the narrative of the US as the enemy of islam that is being pushed by the enemy.  I say we let them all in.  For every one who sneaks in wishing to do us harm, there will be thousands who (hopefully) see the generosity and warmth of America and send that message home.  That's how we win, in the end...

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It seems to me that in the long run, the best way to ultimately defeat radical, apocalyptic jihadism is to do our very best to bring our ideal values of freedom, safety, acceptance, and multiculturalism to the world.  By refusing refugees and demonizing whole swaths of people we help fit the narrative of the US as the enemy of islam that is being pushed by the enemy.  I say we let them all in.  For every one who sneaks in wishing to do us harm, there will be thousands who (hopefully) see the generosity and warmth of America and send that message home.  That's how we win, in the end...

 

 

Indeed.  Well said.

 

When we live our American values, rather than just parrot them, it pays endless dividends.   The Marshall Plan gave the US goodwill around the world that lasted for half a century.   This is a new Marshall Plan moment, and we can step up and embrace it, or get cowardly and parochial, and waste it.

Edited by Predicto

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https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak

Reuters: Police spokesman in Honduras says five Syrians who were seeking to travel to the U.S. on stolen Greek passports have been arrested
2:28 PM

 

Update - Reuters: Police in Honduras say there is no apparent indication five Syrians detained with stolen passports linked to ParisAttacks
2:40 PM

Syrians trying to get here with European passports through Central America brings up whole new set of questions.

 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/AliABCNews

Leaving SFRC meeting Sen. Kaine says administration needs to do better job explaining refugee vetting process to public + state officials
11:56 AM

 

Senators seem more concerned about visa waiver program than refugees - 38 countries don't need visa to visit US including France, Belgium
2:48 PM

 

Kaine does say this though:

https://twitter.com/herszenhorn

Senator @timkaine, Virginia Democrat: "I worry that calls to end or pause our refugee resettlement program are misguided" 
3:05 PM

 

Senator @timkaine, Virginia Democrat: "The fact is that refugees are currently subject to the absolute highest level of security checks"
3:05 PM

 

 

 

 

 

61e1917e-16d1-409d-80c2-1de21590048d_800

Edited by visionary
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I'm a first generation immigrant and I hate all these new immigrants coming in here and ruining our country. If I'm president, I'm building a wall from the tip of Florida all the way to the top of Maine (even the unincorporated parts). 

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Not to mention, if we're going to actually be world leaders, then we need to lead. Not let a politically divided Europe flounder alone under the burden of this refugee crisis.

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It's not about keeping refugees out in my opinion, the biggest argument I see made is that we are allowing these refugees in without assisting our own.  There's tens of thousands of homeless vets or homeless children and families in our own country.  Why not take the resources given to the refugees to come here and distribute to our own?

 

Not to mention, it's already been found that ISIS is sneaking/attempting to sneak in to other countries as refugees.

 

All it takes is a couple terrorists to come in as refugees for another 9/11 to happen.  If you're fine with that then so be it but I'd rather not take that chance.

 

Now if we are talking about bringing in children refugees, that's a different story.  Bring all of the children over that you want.

 

Except that I have now seen the Boston Marathon bombers meme as a "remember these guys, they were refugees.". Though they got in through political asylum granted to their father when they were like 10. So now people will be against bringing children as well and that will be their excuse.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/18/us-france-shooting-honduras-idUSKCN0T72UE20151118?utm_source=twitter#TzPoKIPIAcKwQSvj.97

Honduras detains five Syrians heading for U.S. with stolen Greek passports: police
 

Honduran authorities have detained five Syrian nationals who were trying to reach the United States using stolen Greek passports, but there are no signs of any links to last week's attacks in Paris, police said.

 

The group of Syrian men was held late on Tuesday in the Honduran capital of Tegucigalpa on arrival from Costa Rica and they were planning to head to the border with neighboring Guatemala. The passports had been doctored to replace the photographs with those of the Syrians, police said.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/nyregion/11th-hour-detour-puts-family-in-connecticut-as-indiana-bars-syrian-refugees.html?_r=1

11th-Hour Detour Puts Family in Connecticut as Indiana Bars Syrian Refugees

 

A Syrian refugee family, after waiting for three years in Jordan to be approved to come to the United States, was finally set to land in Indianapolis on Wednesday.

 

Instead, after Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana said on Monday that he would no longer accept Syrian refugees in his state, the family of three will be starting their new life in New Haven.

 

Mr. Pence is one of 26 governors who have objected to the placement of Syrian refugees in their states in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks. Their stance has the agencies that handle resettlements for the United States government scrambling to place families. The Syrian family was the first to be redirected.

 

Republican governors such as Mr. Pence, Republican presidential candidates, the Democratic governor of New Hampshire and other lawmakers have singled out Syrian refugees as a security risk after one suspect killed in the Paris attacks was found with a Syrian passport. As the Obama administration hoped to convince governors that the refugee program already includes extensive vetting and security measures, aid workers from the Midwest to the Northeast improvised.

 

On Tuesday morning, the head of Indiana’s division of family resources sent a letter to Carleen Miller, the executive director of Exodus Refugee Immigration in Indianapolis, informing her that the state was seeking to have the arrival of the Syrian family due this week and all future Syrian arrivals “suspended or redirected to another state that is willing to accept Syrian placements.”

 

Ms. Miller said having to find the family a new home was “one of the hardest things I’ve had to do in the eight years I’m here.”

 

“My role is to create a welcoming environment here in our state that gives a safe haven to refugees,” Ms. Miller added. “That we can’t be that because our state is not welcoming all is really painful.”

In a briefing with reporters, senior administration officials described layers of background checks all refugees must pass, in a process that currently stretches from 18 months to two years — if not longer.

 

The United Nations refugee agency initially selects people who might qualify for resettlement in the United States. They then are interviewed overseas by officers of the Department of Homeland Security. Fingerprints and personal histories are checked against consular watch lists and against databases in the intelligence agencies and at the National Counterterrorism Center, the Homeland Security Department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Defense Department, the officials said.

 

Recently the Homeland Security Department, which is responsible for final approvals, added another check for Syrian refugees, passing them through its fraud detection unit. Currently about half of applications by all refugees are rejected, the officials said.

 

After the extensive vetting abroad, nine national aid agencies, together with the State Department, conduct an allocation meeting every Wednesday. This Wednesday, there are six Syrian families on the docket, said Mia Witte, the project coordinator for pre-arrival services at Church World Service, for a total of 38 people due to arrive in the coming weeks.

 

Several national aid agencies said it would present a logistical nightmare if they were forced to reshuffle Syrian refugees only to states that were hospitable.

Edited by visionary

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I think you can find a happy medium without allowing too many but still also be accommodating to the women and children.  You start taking them in by large numbers then your going to see potential economical and social issues depending on where locations sent.  I still want to see more done in our own home though and that's something we really need to look at.  We're using way to many resources that are unnecessary.

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Y'all suck at immigration since you closed everything down after 9/11. 

 

Unaccounted for Mexicans running riot. Refugees by the planeload. And legit, little old me who just wants to better himself, work hard and contribute has to jump through that many hoops to even get a chance of getting a foot in the door I've forgotten why I originally wanted to come!

 

Humph!

 

Hail. 

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Oh yeah. Crazy stuff.

I wasn't trying to be funny, I was asking a legitimate question.

 

I just don't understand the widespread, massive fear. I mean, if you want to talk odds, you have a much higher chance of being shot by a toddler with a gun (43 times this year) than a terrorist posing as a refugee.

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I wasn't trying to be funny, I was asking a legitimate question.

 

I just don't understand the widespread, massive fear. I mean, if you want to talk odds, you have a much higher chance of being shot by a toddler with a gun (43 times this year) than a terrorist posing as a refugee.

I understand the fear, but acknowledge that it's an irrational one. The question is do you really want to live your life jumping at shadows or thinking the branches outside your window are skeletal fingers reaching to snatch you?

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I just don't understand the widespread, massive fear. I mean, if you want to talk odds, you have a much higher chance of being shot by a toddler with a gun (43 times this year) than a terrorist posing as a refugee.

 

Reminds me of this cartoon from today.

 

BrancJ20151118_low.jpg

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#RefugeesWelcome

 

Preferably at forward, fullback, or goalkeeper for the #USMNT.

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Reminds me of this cartoon from today.

 

BrancJ20151118_low.jpg

 

 

Funny you should post this today

 

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-extremist-jon-ritzheimer-has-new-plan-to-prevent-islamic-syrian-refugee-attacks-in-the-us-7831364

 

Jon Ritzheimer, the de facto leader of Arizona’s anti-Islam movement, says he has a new plan to stop Syrian refugees and Islamic terrorists from attacking Americans: He’s asking people to sling a rifle over their shoulder and carry the gun at all times.

“Terrorists are cowards; they are weak,” he tells New Times. “Terrorists don’t go after hard targets like military bases,” but instead try to scare the masses by attacking civilian (soft) targets.

“If you put a rifle on your back, that makes you a hard target,” he says.

Inspired by the attacks Friday in Paris and the national debate about admitting Syrian refugees into the country, Ritzheimer started a Facebook group called “Pissed Off Americans” to spread the word.

“The federal government is now bringing the battlefield to our country. They are bringing in ‘refugees’ by the masses and refusing to declare war against Radical Islam. We as American Citizens have the right to protect ourselves and our families from such threats,” Ritzheimer writes on Facebook

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It occurs to me how lucky we were that not a single one of the european immigrants coming to the us turned out to be criminals, anarchists, labor activists or heaven forbid, commies.  

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