Renegade7 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I want to pre-face this with the fact I'm am pissed off right now because he's on my fantasy team and I lost by three points because Seattle forget he's the best skill position player they have. I watched that game tonight, and I swear its like the plays are drawn up with them telling Russell "Okay, if any TE is open, go ahead and throw it to him if you want to". And then he runs for three yards when Graham is open 20 yards ahead of him throwing his hands up in pure frustration. You can see it, he's not even first read on most of their passing plays, and they are not even designing plays just to get the ball in his hands. Seattle in the end had to surrender a first round pick to get this guy out there. I would not be against doing the same in a straight up trade, because reality is I feel that first pick will be on a TE anyway (and should be). You can call me crazy if you want, but I whole-heartedly believe this is worthy of discussion considering the reality we are facing now at the TE position and that Seattle is playing like they do not need this guy on their football team at all. Edit: Please see post #8, because I am looking into this, this is not a drunken rage. Graham has gotten injured a lot The last few years. He's kind of expensive too isn't he? He's missed two games in 6 seasons so far as a veteran. He's about $2.9 million on the cap right now for Seattle and the next two years are around $8 milliion each with him being a UFA in 2018 (recipe for a restructure). http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/jimmy-graham/ I've checked a couple different places to verify we can squeeze him in, and can create a little extra buffer room (though not much) by cutting Andre Roberts as well. Can anyone please help me verify this, I'm dead *** serious right now. I would not go crawling up to Seattle begging with my 1st round draft pick up front. At the same time, I would not be against it if it came to that because I am simply not in the mood for trying to develop another TE and risk them being another Fred Davis or Jordan Reed. We've had terrible luck drafting TEs lately, and this is a much more legit reward type scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 My goodness, you were serious? I refuse to vote unless there's an option along the lines of "Are you insane?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Go ahead and sleep on it then. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiv Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 This is just silly. He's a talented TE that no longer has Brees throwing him the ball. He's not worth a 1st. The only TE worth a 1st is Gronk and it's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Would you feel the same way about Gronk if he was in Seattle right now? Would you feel the same way about Graham if he was in New England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Graham has gotten injured a lot The last few years. He's kind of expensive too isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 We need the draft picks to fill in our holes at the DB and TE positions. However, if Graham is available for a 3rd or lower I would certainly bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Graham has gotten injured a lot The last few years. He's kind of expensive too isn't he? He's missed two games in 6 seasons so far as a veteran. He's about $2.9 million on the cap right now for Seattle and the next two years are around $8 milliion each with him being a UFA in 2018 (recipe for a restructure). http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/jimmy-graham/ I've checked a couple different places to verify we can squeeze him in, and can create a little extra buffer room (though not much) by cutting Andre Roberts as well. Can anyone please help me verify this, I'm dead *** serious right now. I would not go crawling up to Seattle begging with my 1st round draft pick up front. At the same time, I would not be against it if it came to that because I am simply not in the mood for trying to develop another TE and risk them being another Fred Davis or Jordan Reed. We've had terrible luck drafting TEs lately, and this is a much more legit reward type scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 You're ignoring bonuses. He's being paid 8 this year, 9 next and 10 the year after. And just saying "restructure" doesn't actually meaning something magic, as much as people here would like it to. And we wouldn't save a penny by cutting Roberts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 You're ignoring onuses. He's being paid 8 this year, 9 next and 10 the year after. And just saying "restructure" doesn't actually meaning something magic, as much as people here would like it to. And we wouldn't save a penny by cutting Roberts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't several bonuses usually absorbed by the team that's trading the player away? You show me that and the thing about Roberts, and I'll believe you, but just saying that isn't helping me right now. This doesn't look good in terms of dealing with Roberts this year, but 2016 and 2017, absolutely it will help. I'm not talking black magic here, either. http://overthecap.com/player/andre-roberts/378/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurfs86 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 No. Wouldn't make a trade like that unless the Skins were serious contenders and 1 player away from taking them over the top. Skins are in evaluation/rebuild mode and need all the draft picks they can get. Can't waste them on 1 position when we have this many holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Roberts' salary is guaranteed this year and even if it wasn't, it all vets' salaries become guaranteed when they're on the roster at the beginning of the season. I'm not going to go find that for you, you can look it up yourself if you want. It should be common knowledge. Seattle likely paid Graham's bonuses for this year, but the next two years have bonuses that need to be paid. It's right in the link you posted yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Spending high picks on trades is generally a bad idea, especially in today's nfl. If you are spending a first on a tight end in the draft there is a good chance he'll perform similarly to Jimmy Graham, be a whole lot cheaper, and be under team control for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Roberts' salary is guaranteed this year and even if it wasn't, it all vets' salaries become guaranteed when they're on the roster at the beginning of the season. I'm not going to go find that for you, you can look it up yourself if you want. It should be common knowledge. Seattle likely paid Graham's bonuses for this year, but the next two years have bonuses that need to be paid. It's right in the link you posted yourself. Ya, thanx for your help. I'll look into, but if you're right, then that just further proves my point that I made earlier about him being affordable this year (because Seattle already paid the bonus) and we'll still have to pay him highly next year. But we can get him in the door now and work from there if we really want to. I've been watching football for a while now, but that doesn't make me a cap wizard. That's why I'm having this discussion, not foaming at the mouth like I know everything. I've already admitted I don't and asking for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 He's too old, with too long of an injury history, and too high a cost (both in contract and in trade value after the Seahawks just traded a 1st for him--and he doesn't have the character concerns of the last guy they got rid of that they traded a 1st for in Harvin). So I vote no, and I'm surprised this was a serious thread. Gotta say that I think this is another bad idea, but I liked the presentation. Edit: And I feel like I have to add: even considering offering up our likely top-12 1st for a soon-to-be 29-year old TE with a history of injury issues and an inability to block is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Yeah no trades for a TE Also, I think you're (and really everyone else) overreacting over the Jordan Reed thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Ok salary issues aside, this is just not a good idea unless they are willing to give him up for say a 5th or 6th rd pick, which they will never do. This is a Vinnie Cerrato type move. The whole point of rebuilding is that you build through the draft. You can't do that by trading away your best draft pick for someone not producing and is on the other side of the best part of his career. For the record, we would not save a single penny this year trading Roberts. We would still have $2M dead cap space next year. It looks like Seattle could trade Graham with no dead cap. NO ate most of his guaranteed salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 For the record, we would not save a single penny this year trading Roberts. We would still have $2M dead cap space next year. It looks like Seattle could trade Graham with no dead cap. NO ate most of his guaranteed salary. While I agree with the beginning of your post whole-heartedly, really this quote isn't technically accurate. If we TRADED Roberts, rather than releasing him, we would save cap space. Whatever team traded for him would take on the remainder of his salary. It could always be worked out that we pay his salary instead, but short of some arrangement the new team takes it on so we save that amount. All a moot point, because no one is going to trade for him anyway. Meanwhile, either way, yes, we'd have 2 mil in dead cap next year, but if we keep him he'll count for 5, so we'd save 3 mil in cap by getting rid of him, either now or after the season. Seattle has paid Graham 5.1 mil in bonuses this year, so if they dealt him that would be dead cap. But that counts on their cap whether they keep him or deal him, so it's not like it would be a hit to them, they would save the remainder of his salary for the season. New Orleans didn't really eat any guaranteed salary, but they did have dead cap because of his signing bonus. He only had 1 mil guaranteed salary total. Maybe some of that is just semantics. Just trying to offer clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoah Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I might posit a vote if there was a chance that Graham was on the trade block. But since Seattle won't even entertain the notion to trade one of the best TEs in the league, I'll just pass on this one for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Yeah no trades for a TE Also, I think you're (and really everyone else) overreacting over the Jordan Reed thing. I agree with half of that... Jordan Reed has missed like 7-8 games due to concussions...not even including all of the other injuries... The concussion thing is the big concern. Guys just can't stay in the NFL with that kind of concussion history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 You want to trade our first rounder for a TE? Yeah, I'm going to need the "are you insane" option as well. I would trade a conditional 6th for Davis, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pray4surf Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 It made sense for Seattle who just needs a few additional pieces on offense but not for us. We are not a TE away from being a dominant team in our division. More importantly we still have glaring needs like ILB, Secondary, WR and the QB is still a ? I would trade a conditional 6th for Davis, but that's about it. This, or Roberts for Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 No. No more flashy signings. He's more of a WR, than a TE, and doesn't block for ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I suggest you pick up J'ron Hamm for your fantasy team and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The trading = bonus money to the original team, is bonuses already paid. Guy signs 15mill signing bonus to spread hit over 5 years. If he's traded after 3 years, the remaining 6 million already paid gets excelerated to there cap at the time of the trade. Roster and other bonuses in year 4 and 5 would be the responsibility of the team acquiring said player. As for Roberts, if we cut him or make him inactive we're going to pay for him. From the cap link the Ravens don't have a lot of wiggle room. Eat all, but 1 mill of Roberts salary and get a 5th or 6th (a bit higher for eating salary). http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/redskinsblog/does-it-make-sense-ravens-trade-redskins-wr-ravens-andre-roberts-mccloughan-ozzie-newsome-steve-smith http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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