Larry Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Link. The link above is to a kind of intro page. That page has links to several articles. (I'm still reading the first one, which is quite long, and which had the opening part of it printed in my local paper, hence how I heard of it.) Looks like there's a whole bunch of material, here. Hopefully really in-depth journalism. (Or at least, it seems to be really long.) Thought there might be a whole lot of things in there, worth discussing. Opening for the article I'm reading, now: Officers Brandon Paudert and Bill Evans never saw it coming. The white minivan pulled over on Interstate 40 near West Memphis, Ark., in 2010 came back registered to a church in Ohio. Inside the vehicle were a Bible and some documents quoting Scripture. Minutes later, Evans lay dying in the ditch and Paudert was sprawled on the roadway, their bodies tattered by two dozen bullets from an AK-47. The killers: members of the sovereign citizen movement, which the officers had never heard of. “They didn’t realize that there are people at war with this country who are not international terrorists,” said Bob Paudert, then West Memphis police chief and father of one of the slain officers. “These people are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs. And they are more dangerous to us in law enforcement than international terrorists.” Domestic terrorism used to be a major focus for police and federal agents, especially after the Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 people 20 years ago Sunday. But the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, led to a dramatic change: Law enforcement shifted its focus from domestic to foreign terrorism. And today, while the number of violent incidents committed by domestic extremists is actually increasing, the holes in the net to catch them are growing larger, The Kansas City Star found in a one-year investigation. A network of centers set up to detect and deter terrorism has done little of either, while at the same time federal funding to train law enforcement officers has been slashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Help if there was a link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Here is a link to the KC Star article he was reading: http://projects.kansascity.com/2015/domestic-terrorism/#/story/18859890 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Help if there was a link Picky, picky, picky. (I've fixed it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 is it terror or just cranks? we are a unruly people, besides the sheep of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 is it terror or just cranks? we are a unruly people, besides the sheep of course "Over several meetings, the Missouri Highway Patrol officers listened to militia leader Brad Glover and his comrades talk about raiding military installations. Their ultimate plan: to attack Fort Hood at its annual Freedom Fest celebration on the Fourth of July. The violent plot was foiled when FBI agents arrested Glover and an accomplice at a campground 40 miles southwest of Fort Hood before dawn on July 4, 1997. The men possessed an automatic weapon, explosives, a silencer, 1,600 rounds of ammunition and bulletproof vests. Glover and his comrade were each sentenced to five years in federal prison." Cranks. Unruly. I do wonder what the prison sentence of somebody with Muhammad in his name would have been for the same offenses as those quotes above. Not that anything would be too long, rather the 5 years seems awfully light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 sounds like cranks....targeting UN troops if they only prosecuted Muhammad for weapons charges it would likely be the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 With the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing they are re-running footage and it shows a lot of the dead children that were in the daycare there. It is really hard to stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I often catch myself wondering how far awy we are from witnessing another incident like Oklahoma City or the Boston Marathon Bombing. Or cyber terrorism. I recently had a few discussions with my father about what he really did when he was in the military, and various discussions he's had with people in all branches of gov/law enforcement, and you really get the sense that we are all hanging on by a thread, in many different ways. Of course, most people readily accept that, but to go into great detail about it, really is unsettling. It makes the how and why of a lot of these high profile incidents like Gyrocopter Man and the several white house breaches, etc, more believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 That headline reads like a horror movie. "Ignoring the terror within". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I often catch myself wondering how far awy we are from witnessing another incident like Oklahoma City or the Boston Marathon Bombing. Or cyber terrorism. I recently had a few discussions with my father about what he really did when he was in the military, and various discussions he's had with people in all branches of gov/law enforcement, and you really get the sense that we are all hanging on by a thread, in many different ways. Of course, most people readily accept that, but to go into great detail about it, really is unsettling. It makes the how and why of a lot of these high profile incidents like Gyrocopter Man and the several white house breaches, etc, more believable. But the other side of that is, I think that I want for there to be the possibility. I remember, after Oklahoma City, a lot of political blowhards. Demanding to know why the FBI hadn't infiltrated these right-wing groups before they had information of a probable crime. (And wondering how many of the Democrats saying that, remembered being anti-war protesters, during Vietnam, and having the government spying on them because of their political views.) I remember people demanding that we do whatever it takes to make another Oklahoma City impossible. And my response was to ask people to imagine that they are the King of the USA. They have unlimited authority to do whatever they want. Assume that you are a benevolent king, though. And that you always exercise just the minimum amount of power that you have to use, to do what's necessary. Now, imagining that you have all of this authority, ask yourself: What is the minimum that you will have to do, to make Oklahoma City impossible? And then ask yourself: Do you want to live in that country? I think, given the choice, I'd rather live in a country where Oklahoma City is possible. ---------- I'm not saying I think we should ignore domestic terrorism. Just saying that eliminating the threat, eliminating the risk, is an undesirable goal. There's certainly conflicting goals in play, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 But the other side of that is, I think that I want for there to be the possibility. I remember, after Oklahoma City, a lot of political blowhards. Demanding to know why the FBI hadn't infiltrated these right-wing groups before they had information of a probable crime. (And wondering how many of the Democrats saying that, remembered being anti-war protesters, during Vietnam, and having the government spying on them because of their political views.) I remember people demanding that we do whatever it takes to make another Oklahoma City impossible. And my response was to ask people to imagine that they are the King of the USA. They have unlimited authority to do whatever they want. Assume that you are a benevolent king, though. And that you always exercise just the minimum amount of power that you have to use, to do what's necessary. Now, imagining that you have all of this authority, ask yourself: What is the minimum that you will have to do, to make Oklahoma City impossible? And then ask yourself: Do you want to live in that country? I think, given the choice, I'd rather live in a country where Oklahoma City is possible. ---------- I'm not saying I think we should ignore domestic terrorism. Just saying that eliminating the threat, eliminating the risk, is an undesirable goal. There's certainly conflicting goals in play, here. Yeah, I get all that (budgeting/resources, laws, etc). There are hard choices that have to be made, and inevitably, your ass is going to be hanging out one way or another. There's no way to completely stamp out stuff like that, even under a dictatorship. And it certainly is possible. I just hits me sometimes, just how possible Possible really is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I have to preface what i am going to say with, I hope it goes without saying to people that actually know me that i would never do anything like OK city/boston marathon/etc... (I certainly don;t want to be visited by the secret service!) but ... when things like this happen.. and the talking heads babble on about how sophisticated it was, and the level of coordination required...etc..... i always think: really??? if i really really wanted to do that, how hard would it REALLY be? certainly it would require some serious planning, and some internet research. AND it would be much harder to do it and get away with it.... but to just do it? how hard is it to figure out how to make a bomb, sneak into a crowd and leave it? could pretty much everybody in the top 5% of brain-power figure it out if they set their mind to it? the top 20%? if it is 5%, then there are 15 million people in the USA smart enough to carry it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 The good news is that I have the impression that, with the notable exception of 9/11, the smart ones don't usually try. I mean, back under W, we used to read, occasionally, about the government foiling one terrorist attempt or another. And the impression I got was that the folks they caught really weren't all that bright. (Or maybe things that I assume aren't that tough, actually are harder than I think.) I remember one case, where the thing that stuck in my head was that, supposedly, this group of home-grown terrorists couldn't figure out how to buy guns, for their attack. So the FBI agent who had infiltrated their cell had to get guns for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Here's a nice long list of far-right attacks over the past decade or so. (and when I say far right I mean things like sovereign citizens, neo-Nazis, freemen, KKK, homegrown militia, skinheads, tax protestors, Aryan Nation, and so forth, not regular conservatives, so don't get all upset.....) http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right They definitely don't get as much attention as Muslim extremists, and definitely commit a lot more attacks in the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Dang, that's a bunch. just scrolling down the page, without reading, took a long time. And it sure seemed like they went down in frequency, a lot, from 02-08, and then skyrocketed in 09. (Although, I suspect that the economy contributed to that, too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Dang, that's a bunch. just scrolling down the page, without reading, took a long time. And it sure seemed like they went down in frequency, a lot, from 02-08, and then skyrocketed in 09. (Although, I suspect that the economy contributed to that, too.) Im also sure that having a newly inaugurated black president turned up a few recruits and sympathizers (though the most hardcore are probably anti gov't no matter how you slice it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Here's a nice long list of far-right attacks over the past decade or so. (and when I say far right I mean things like sovereign citizens, neo-Nazis, freemen, KKK, homegrown militia, skinheads, tax protestors, Aryan Nation, and so forth, not regular conservatives, so don't get all upset.....) http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right They definitely don't get as much attention as Muslim extremists, and definitely commit a lot more attacks in the USA SPLC is so friggin biased it isn't funny http://www.splcenter.org/search/google/terror%20from%20the%20left?query=terror%20from%20the%20left&cx=011869570708919044592%3Agucfjjffq2e&cof=FORID%3A11&sitesearch= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 lol, this thread is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm not really sure if the number of regular ES posters who are actually standing up to defend the terrorists among us, because they're on the same side, qualifies as "hilarious". I'm capable of enjoying black humor. But I prefer it to be a bit less real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 It's hilarious that this is even being discussed. The report, from the SPLC no less, comes out to about 5.5 incidents of "Right Wing Violence." a year. In a nation with thousands of them. Yet it mysteriously leaves out the likes of Dorner and Tsarnaev, who are bastions of the left. Cops murder more people than right wing terrorists. But by all means, let's talk about the "right wing" terrorists. And I love the SPLC's classification of these acts of right wing violence: Joseph Stack - So right wing, he hates George Bush, capitalism, the Catholic Church, and drug companies. James von Brunn - Hates Israel, opposed the Iraq war, hated Fox News, hated Christianity and said he was a socialist. Clearly a right winger. Quality research from the SPLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm not really sure if the number of regular ES posters who are actually standing up to defend the terrorists among us, because they're on the same side, qualifies as "hilarious". I'm capable of enjoying black humor. But I prefer it to be a bit less real. could you give examples of this defending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 James von Brunn - Hates Israel, opposed the Iraq war, hated Fox News, hated Christianity and said he was a socialist. Clearly a right winger. Quality research from the SPLC. Uh what. First I would love to hear how Tsarnaev is a bastion of the left. Also Von Brunn was straight up far right. Like there isn't really another way to describe him. I have no idea how you are defining right wing but he ticks off the boxes. Also tax protesters tend to come from the right (although Stack was a little all over the place). Von Brunn was a white supremacist[1] and Holocaust denier[1][2] who had written numerous antisemitic essays, created an antisemitic website called The Holy Western Empire,[3] and is the author of a 1999 self-published book, Kill the Best Gentiles, which praisesAdolf Hitler and denies the Holocaust.[4] He was also an Obama citizenship conspiracy theorist.[5][6] After the shooting, traces of his personal writings and works online were deleted from many websites, including AskArt.com, FreeRepublic and his personal user page on Wikipedia where he was indefinitely blocked "Von Brunn was a member of the now-defunct American Friends of the British National Party, a group that raised funds in the United States for the far right and "rights for whites"British National Party (BNP). The group had been addressed on at least two occasions by Nick Griffin, an ex-member of the British National Front and chairman of the BNP.[24] A BNP spokesperson claimed after the shooting that the party had "never heard of" von Brunn.[25] In 2004 and 2005 he lived in Hayden Lake, Idaho, the town where Aryan Nations, a neo-Nazi organization led by Richard Girnt Butler, was based until 2001.[12] He was living inAnnapolis, Maryland at the time of the 2009 incident.[12][" Von Brunn was arrested in 1981 for attempted kidnapping[16] and hostage-taking[3] of members of the Federal Reserve Board after approaching the Federal Reserve's Eccles Building armed with a revolver, knife, and sawed-off shotgun.[17][18] Von Brunn later described his actions as a "citizen's arrest for treason."[3][16] He reportedly complained of "highinterest rates" during the incident and was disarmed without any shots being fired, after threatening a security guard with a .38 caliber pistol.[19] He reportedly claimed he had a bomb, which was found to be only a device designed to look like a bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Uh what. First I would love to hear how Tsarnaev is a bastion of the left. Also Von Brunn was straight up far right. Like there isn't really another way to describe him. I have no idea how you are defining right wing but he ticks off the boxes. Also tax protesters tend to come from the right (although Stack was a little all over the place). "Von Brunn was a member of the now-defunct American Friends of the British National Party, a group that raised funds in the United States for the far right and "rights for whites"British National Party (BNP). The group had been addressed on at least two occasions by Nick Griffin, an ex-member of the British National Front and chairman of the BNP.[24] A BNP spokesperson claimed after the shooting that the party had "never heard of" von Brunn.[25] In 2004 and 2005 he lived in Hayden Lake, Idaho, the town where Aryan Nations, a neo-Nazi organization led by Richard Girnt Butler, was based until 2001.[12] He was living inAnnapolis, Maryland at the time of the 2009 incident.[12][" Tsarnaev group up in America. He is the product of a liberal eduction, particularly the university system. Von Brunn was a known socialist. In addition, He referred to "the insane teachings of Jesus", and said the gospels are: "stuffed with lies, miracles, guilt trips, betrayal, virgin birth, eternal damnation, salvation - a scenario appealing to the superstitious, vulnerable, ignorant yearning sheep - he named his hoax "Christianity." ... "Christianity" destroyed Roman Civilization." http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35192 Pretty obvious that Brunn had a ton of leftist views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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