Dan T.

Some More Cops Who Need to Be Fired

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3 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

If he is reaching for the gun, then he's trying to remove it from the holster. Stop trying to play the semantics game. If he actually reached for the gun, than he absolutely had an intention of removing it from the holster. He wasn't going to massage it.

 

 

It is not I playing semantics

The question was not about Brown's intention, but rather did he try to remove it.

s512t2ewqa

 

The film and assertions are just sensationalist horse**** that some seem to love..

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Michael Davidson was on his way to the Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in North Carolina, according to his father, when he got into a minor traffic accident which resulted in a police officer, Phillip Han****, showing up and shooting Davidson after he exited the car.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/14/shooting-of-unarmed-airman-ruled-reason

 

this is the shooting i reference yesterday. surprised nobody has seen this. i dont see how the cop is justified here- the man is opening his door, stepping out of the car, and the cop shoots him, pretty unbelievable. the only thing that would, at least, make the cops actions understandable would be if he was told he was pulling up to a scene where there were shots fired, or a gunman was on the loose. he wasnt puling up to an attempted murder- it was a minor traffic accident. pretty insane, imo.

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That cop is a ****ing idiot and a coward. We can't have police officers serving the community when they're THIS scared to do their jobs. He says out your hands up, the victim complies and is immediately shot. Immediately. He was shot for following instructions. I hope that guy lives and that coward is working UNARMED security. 

13 hours ago, twa said:

 

The film and assertions are just sensationalist horse**** that some seem to love..

 

Or just refuse to see it any differently, which is what we've all learned about you over time. 

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14 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

 

Or just refuse to see it any differently, which is what we've all learned about you over time. 

 

I obviously do see things differently ,along with the jury and Justice dept.

 

 

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In regard to the Alabama cop above, I actually see a split-second where I understand the cop's actions.  Not that I think they were correct, but I think I can see what he thought he saw.

 

The driver doesn't actually get out with his hands up, he has both of them on a black object when he opens the car door.  It seems pretty obvious in retrospect that it isn't a gun, but I can imagine that not being clear in the heat of the moment.  Dude seems drunk or something, and I'm not sure how to factor that into everything.

 

Once the guy has been shot and is rolling in pain, the cop's commands to put his hands in the air are just nonsensical.

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11 hours ago, dfitzo53 said:

In regard to the Alabama cop above, I actually see a split-second where I understand the cop's actions.  Not that I think they were correct, but I think I can see what he thought he saw.

 

The driver doesn't actually get out with his hands up, he has both of them on a black object when he opens the car door.  It seems pretty obvious in retrospect that it isn't a gun, but I can imagine that not being clear in the heat of the moment.  Dude seems drunk or something, and I'm not sure how to factor that into everything.

 

Once the guy has been shot and is rolling in pain, the cop's commands to put his hands in the air are just nonsensical.

 

i understand what youre saying. my problem is the cops actions within the context of the actual situation. i dont believe that every time a cop shoots someone who, after the fact, turns out to be unarmed thats its automatically unjustified. if someone is unarmed but is in a physical altercation with a cop, its often going to be justified just because at the very least the cop has a gun and any physical altercation has to be interpreted by the cop as a struggle for the gun. 

 

in situations where theres not a physical confrontation, there really needs to be some extenuating circumstances- some reason why the cop has to suspect that someone has a gun or some kind of weapon and is willing to use it. i cant imagine why (unless there was a report of a shooting or someone brandishing a gun at the scene) the cop would react this way to a guy getting out of his truck. he wasnt even being detained or under any orders from the cop at that point. 

 

as someone who has had too many interactions with cops- some good, some bad- i'm a big believer in just listening to the cops and doing what your told- even when your cuffed and put in the back of a cruiser solely for driving on a suspended license (which i was). but, if i'm in a minor fender bender and the cops pull up, i wouldnt think twice to get out of my car to talk to them.

 

i'm generally sympathetic to cops insofar as they have a difficult job that is obviously stressful. i was a marine corps gulf war combat vet and a criminal justice major in college. i'd thought about becoming a cop. i realize mistakes are going to be made in any profession, but when youre a cop, it can be tragic. still, imo,that cop is the epitome of trigger happy and shouldnt be on the street. 

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21 hours ago, visionary said:

 

this story broke my heart on so many levels.

 

These people are so callous and inhumane. There will be no justice for him.

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I'd agree the cop seems trigger happy , but I agree with him not facing criminal charges since it could easily have been perceived as a weapon in that moment.

 

You'd like to think civilians would get benefit of doubt, but some have made that risky.

Should at least be retr

 

 

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I agree. At a fender bender accident, there is no reason why the cop should've approached the situation as if he'd pulled the man over. Often times during a minor accident, people are getting in and out of their vehicle to get additional information, maybe a pen, whatever. And every time I've seen or been involved in an accident, the people involved in the accident are outside of the car speaking to the officer. There is no reason for him to have escalated that situation. It's the equivalent of a pedestrian walking to a cop, and the cop just shooting him because he was holding something. 

 

People like this aren't fit for this job. We need to find a way to weed these people out of these precincts, because instead of saving lives they are endangering them. 

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2 hours ago, twa said:

I'd agree the cop seems trigger happy , but I agree with him not facing criminal charges since it could easily have been perceived as a weapon in that moment.

 

You'd like to think civilians would get benefit of doubt, but some have made that risky.

Should at least be retr

 

 

Like I've said dozens of times, cops have all the training but civilians are the ones expected to react correctly under stress at the risk of getting shot or beaten.  Someone grabbed their wallet?  Better shoot him just in case because part of being a hero is erring on the side of shooting people.  

 

 

23 hours ago, visionary said:

 

There is no shortage of horrible cruelties inflicted on prisoners followed by a joke of an investigation and no charges.  There is no reason to believe lawmakers are ignorant of this, so the conclusion must be the system is to their satisfaction, or working as designed.  

 

Advanced western democracy, authoritarian state justice system.  

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http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/03/06/city-officials-demand-answers-following-alleged-pd-overtime-scheme/

 

City Officials Demand Answers Following Alleged PD Overtime Scheme

 

BALTIMORE (WJZ) — The fallout continues after the indictments of seven Baltimore Police Department officers for alleged corruption.

Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh is among those outraged, and some council members are also speaking out.

The allegations include officers putting in for overtime when they weren’t in the area, sometimes even when they were out of the state.

The question everyone keeps asking: how this could happen for so long, and how it could be done with such ease?

Some officers doubled their salaries, making six figures on the city dime, leading the mayor to demand an audit.

“This is taxpayer dollars,” said Mayor Pugh. “Taxpayers are the ones who are footing the bills.”

Some officers lounging while clocking overtime. One accused of doing so while on vacation in Myrtle Beach. Another accused of raking in overtime while playing poker at Maryland Live.

 

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On 3/16/2017 at 8:04 AM, Gamebreaker said:

That cop is a ****ing idiot and a coward. We can't have police officers serving the community when they're THIS scared to do their jobs. He says out your hands up, the victim complies and is immediately shot. Immediately. He was shot for following instructions. I hope that guy lives and that coward is working UNARMED security. 

 

Or just refuse to see it any differently, which is what we've all learned about you over time. 

Cmon, you knew what this was.

 

Wat+_88be29acd1102e09772697da0dce3af7.jp

 

On 3/20/2017 at 11:04 AM, BenningRoadSkin said:

this story broke my heart on so many levels.

 

These people are so callous and inhumane. There will be no justice for him.

 

The only justice nowadays is that you make yourself....for some people anyway.

 

7 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/03/06/city-officials-demand-answers-following-alleged-pd-overtime-scheme/

 

City Officials Demand Answers Following Alleged PD Overtime Scheme

 

BALTIMORE (WJZ) — The fallout continues after the indictments of seven Baltimore Police Department officers for alleged corruption.

Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh is among those outraged, and some council members are also speaking out.

The allegations include officers putting in for overtime when they weren’t in the area, sometimes even when they were out of the state.

The question everyone keeps asking: how this could happen for so long, and how it could be done with such ease?

Some officers doubled their salaries, making six figures on the city dime, leading the mayor to demand an audit.

“This is taxpayer dollars,” said Mayor Pugh. “Taxpayers are the ones who are footing the bills.”

Some officers lounging while clocking overtime. One accused of doing so while on vacation in Myrtle Beach. Another accused of raking in overtime while playing poker at Maryland Live.

 

 

Clearly they felt threatened and needed some extra $$$ to calm their heroic nerves. After all, eating doughnuts is hazardous and scary folks!

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1 hour ago, The Sisko said:

Cmon, you knew what this was.

 

 

 

Hmmmmm... 

 

Sisko, do you believe that shooting was justified? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, grego said:

Hmmmmm... 

 

Sisko, do you believe that shooting was justified? 

 

Of course not. That comment and the pic were both referring to the last sentence of your post. :) However I will say that this video of a cowardly piece of crap illustrates a point I've made over and over in this thread. Your white privilege is no guarantee that you won't be needlessly shot or brutalized just like one of us if you run across the wrong cop in the wrong situation. It's not only a race issue. It's a race and cops being trained to be cowards that shoot first and ask questions later issue.

Edited by The Sisko
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, The Sisko said:

 

Of course not. That comment and the pic were both referring to the last sentence of your post. :) However I will say that this video of a cowardly piece of crap illustrates a point I've made over and over in this thread. Your white privilege is no guarantee that you won't be needlessly shot or brutalized just like one of us if you run across the wrong cop in the wrong situation. It's not only a race issue. It's a race and cops being trained to be cowards that shoot first and ask questions later issue.

 

 

if you want to shut down debate or conversation in 2017, you throw out a charge of 'well, white privilege, so' .theres really nothing anyone can say in response. if you attempt to deny or downplay it, youre a bigot- its white privilege itself that is preventing you from seeing your white privilege.

 

its also one of the few- if not the only- times someone can throw a negative accusation against someone youve never met based solely on their skin color and be applauded for it. it completely ignores the individual, which is quite bigoted. 

 

i think conversation about privilege (not just white) is interesting. its difficult to get people to admit what privileges they enjoy. often, its a guilt thing, but it shouldnt be. hell, i havent gotten a speeding ticket (one thats not a speed camera, anyway) in years. that because i have license plates that indicate i'm a vet. i admit, its pretty sweet. as is the free meal at golden corral on veterans day. :)

 

btw- speaking of privilege, did you read the story about the red bull heir? drunk driving, killed a cop, about to walk scott free. talk about infuriating. 

 

anyway- enough derailing. back to the bad cops.

Edited by grego
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Regarding the roadside shooting, I wonder whether part of the problem is how cops are trained.  Not to minimize the rare potential dangers they face, but the actual chances of someone in an accident coming out of a car armed and ready to shoot HAVE to be extremely low. 

 

Yet officers go through those training simulators where one out of every eight cardboard citizens is armed and ready to fire.  Maybe after going through that simulator every quarter recreating shoot/no shoot scenarios, that creates an unreal expectation in officers' minds regarding what they face in dealing with the public.  Any cell phone, wallet, or car keys starts looking like a gun after Police Simulator 2.0 shows three unarmed citizens followed by granny pointing a Glock. 

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1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

Regarding the roadside shooting, I wonder whether part of the problem is how cops are trained.  Not to minimize the rare potential dangers they face, but the actual chances of someone in an accident coming out of a car armed and ready to shoot HAVE to be extremely low. 

 

Yet officers go through those training simulators where one out of every eight cardboard citizens is armed and ready to fire.  Maybe after going through that simulator every quarter recreating shoot/no shoot scenarios, that creates an unreal expectation in officers' minds regarding what they face in dealing with the public.  Any cell phone, wallet, or car keys starts looking like a gun after Police Simulator 2.0 shows three unarmed citizens followed by granny pointing a Glock. 

its not just training, they dont hire the right people. They are looking for psychos who dont know empathy.

 

Michael A Woods Jr, a former Baltimore cop turned academic and criminal justice reform advocate talked about how they don't hire the right people. He was interviewed last week on the Combat Jack podcast last week where he talked about these issues. He also talked about how predominately black police forces still end up with white command and the culture of policing.

 

*Warning, this show is very hip hop and black. (lol)

 

 

 

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1hr 28 mins ... can you tell me at what min mark the best 5 mins or so starts? Cant spend hour plus listening at work. 

 

I assume this is the former Balt police officer who faced death threats and dead rats left on his car windshield bc he told the truth about excessive force/planting evidence. Or was it when officers were black mailing low income women into sex/rape? 

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27 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

1hr 28 mins ... can you tell me at what min mark the best 5 mins or so starts? Cant spend hour plus listening at work. 

 

I assume this is the former Balt police officer who faced death threats and dead rats left on his car windshield bc he told the truth about excessive force/planting evidence. Or was it when officers were black mailing low income women into sex/rape? 

Neither of them.

 

He left the Bmore police force years back and started speaking up after the Freddie Gray murder. 

 

I wont point out time spots because the entire thing is great. One of the major things that stuck out to me was the lead theory and how that lead to a decrease in crime, and not Giuliani's "Broken windows" policy. NYC was vigourous in removing lead from its buildings in the 80s and that lead to a dramatic crime drop.

 

Also he talked about the culture of Bmore police being poor and leading to these issues. Also, talked about how police training is terrible. A lot of officers cannot shoot a gun properly. He used his experience in the marines where he was a middle tier shooter, yet in police academy training he had hte highest marksmanship in the history of the Bmore police academy.

 

Also the stuff about polygraph testing weeding out the guys who would show empathy and could relate to others actually leads to people being hired who should not be police officers as they think their poop doesnt stink.

 

 

 

Woods advocates for Civilian policing.

 

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Posted (edited)

The mention of the Freddie Gray murder brings to mind a podcast I've been listening to, it's called Undisclosed. The Undisclosed team was instrumental in helping Adnan Syed from the Serial Podcast, get a new trial. And they work extensively with Innocence Projects. Most of them are defense lawyers and Professors in law.

 

They've taken on the Freddie Gray murder to as one of their investigations, and unlike Prosecutor Moseley, they've actually been trying to find out exactly how Freddie's neck was broken and spoken to witnesses. It looks like Moseley intentionally tanked those cases under pressure from the BPD and Mayor. All the evidence points to Freddie having his neck broken during the arrest, and not inside the police van. Witnesses were ignored, or arrested on false charges, and video evidence of the actual arrest has been erased from city cameras and witness camera phones. 

 

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/episodes/miniseries-2/episode-3.html

Edited by Gamebreaker
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6 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

The mention of the Freddie Gray murder brings to mind a podcast I've been listening to, it's called Undisclosed. They've taken on the Freddie Gray murder to as one of their investigations, and unlike Prosecutor Moseley, they've actually been trying to find out exactly how Freddie's neck was broken and spoken to witnesses. It looks like Moseley intentionally tanked those cases under pressure from the BPD and Mayor. All the evidence points to Freddie having his neck broken during the arrest, and not inside the police van. Witnesses were ignored, or arrested on false charges, and video evidence of the actual arrest has been arrested from city cameras and witness cameraphones. 

im convinced she tanked them too.

 

Woods talked about that in his podcast too.

 

 

Also in that podcast, he talks about the sliding standard that makes it ok to use excessive force. 

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4 hours ago, grego said:

 

if you want to shut down debate or conversation in 2017, you throw out a charge of 'well, white privilege, so' .theres really nothing anyone can say in response. if you attempt to deny or downplay it, youre a bigot- its white privilege itself that is preventing you from seeing your white privilege.

 

its also one of the few- if not the only- times someone can throw a negative accusation against someone youve never met based solely on their skin color and be applauded for it. it completely ignores the individual, which is quite bigoted. 

 

i think conversation about privilege (not just white) is interesting. its difficult to get people to admit what privileges they enjoy. often, its a guilt thing, but it shouldnt be. hell, i havent gotten a speeding ticket (one thats not a speed camera, anyway) in years. that because i have license plates that indicate i'm a vet. i admit, its pretty sweet. as is the free meal at golden corral on veterans day. :)

 

btw- speaking of privilege, did you read the story about the red bull heir? drunk driving, killed a cop, about to walk scott free. talk about infuriating. 

 

anyway- enough derailing. back to the bad cops.

 

As with a lot of terms in use for such things nowadays, I'm actually not a big fan of the term myself. However I use it because it's become accepted shorthand for being able to exist in a society that caters to those who look like you and in which those that look different are automatically seen as "other". However I think it's important to point out that benefiting from white privilege doesn't equate to racism. People are just living their lives in a system they didn't create but that nevertheless advantages them in a bazillion ways. It's been spoofed a million times, but my favorite is Eddie Murphy's version because it subtly jabs back at the perception among some black people that white privilege equates to a life of leisure.

 

1 hour ago, Gamebreaker said:

They've taken on the Freddie Gray murder to as one of their investigations, and unlike Prosecutor Moseley, they've actually been trying to find out exactly how Freddie's neck was broken and spoken to witnesses. It looks like Moseley intentionally tanked those cases under pressure from the BPD and Mayor. All the evidence points to Freddie having his neck broken during the arrest, and not inside the police van.

 

I've said this from the beginning. Looking at the angle his leg was hanging it seemed obvious to me at the time. I'm glad someone is looking into that possibility.

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3 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

The mention of the Freddie Gray murder brings to mind a podcast I've been listening to, it's called Undisclosed. The Undisclosed team was instrumental in helping Adnan Syed from the Serial Podcast, get a new trial. And they work extensively with Innocence Projects. Most of them are defense lawyers and Professors in law.

 

They've taken on the Freddie Gray murder to as one of their investigations, and unlike Prosecutor Moseley, they've actually been trying to find out exactly how Freddie's neck was broken and spoken to witnesses. It looks like Moseley intentionally tanked those cases under pressure from the BPD and Mayor. All the evidence points to Freddie having his neck broken during the arrest, and not inside the police van. Witnesses were ignored, or arrested on false charges, and video evidence of the actual arrest has been erased from city cameras and witness camera phones. 

 

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/episodes/miniseries-2/episode-3.html

 

Ive been screaming that from day one. His cervical was severed or partially severed but not completely displaced during the tackle/arrest. Think 2 rocks stacked on top of each other, wobbly and unstable. Adrenaline would help keep his cervical intact for a short period of time much like a soft collar. But once adrenaline wears off or a good bounce = cervical is severed, airflow cut off and system starts to shut down. 

 

The video of him getting put in the police van shows he had no or very little control of his legs. 

 

Prosecution had the wrong theory of liability/cause of death. 

 

I know Mosley, I had cases against her and she is incompetent and never should have been voted as the ADA for Balt City. 

 

She was doing car accident defense for an insurance company before she ran for the ADA position. Stories that came out of that office after she took over show her to be very vindictive and egotistical .... but she is not a good lawyer. She is not smart, doesnt know how to try a case but she thinks her stuff doesnt stink. 

 

All the good prosecutors left her office and are still leaving. 

 

Mosley screwed the city of Baltimore is so many ways. Officers leaving the force, no trust btw officers and ADAs office, good prosecutors left .... 

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