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Need to ask elementary through high school teachers/educators a question


Elessar78

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Not an educator, just wondering if there is (or will be) any context to those questions.

 

I'm a parent and coach youth sports and I'm looking for parallels that will help me teach my sport better and help my own children in school. 

 

As a coach, I've seen my players on the first time they touch a ball to playing in the NCAA playoffs to going off to Europe to tryout for a professional team. I've seen a lot and have a pretty good idea of what it takes to get from point A to point B. But I don't have that knowledge when it comes to academics. 

 

In soccer the first years, esp ages 6 through 8 are critical. You don't get a good grounding those years and it becomes very impossible to catch up. 

 

Plus, "the wall" seems to be not what to coach but how to coach better. Can the process be accelerated with using good teaching techniques? Are there techniques that teachers use that I don't know about? Are there techniques that have been proven not effective. 

 

There are lots of studies now, namely one released by Ohio State, where they tracked critical reasoning skills from freshman year through graduation and found negligible improvement in that area. OSU isn't an easy college to get into, so all those kids had good grades. 

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1.) Are methods for teaching and acquisition of motor skills (in sports) the same for more academic-type skills?

 

2.) What are some predictors of real academic success (actual learning not just good grades or high standardized test scores).

 

Read about problem based learning (PBL) and Process Oriented Guided Inquiry Learning (POGIL). In general, the biggest key to learning is similar to atheltics- practice with feedback.  Feedback in stages that allow for more "practice" work well.

 

(Ask a question.  Let them think about it.  Give some feedback related to the question and let them think about that in the context of the original question (they can "practice" the first question with the feedback and continue in a step wise manner.)

 

One good indicator of knowledge (and therefore learned information) is the ability to generate good concept maps with connectors (normally edges where the concepts are nodes) that show conditional dependence.

 

(Going from A is connected to B to A is connected to B when X is true.)

 

This is relatively short term and topic related.

 

Very long term the key (which seems to me to be true for athletics too) must be building intrinsic motivation.

 

(As near as I can tell, that's harder.  Though avoiding the use of extrinsic motivators appear to be key.)

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PBL, tiered high-order thinking (evolving conceptual knowledge of a skill or field awareness for example). Practice/repetition with feedback. Analogies they can relate to. Encouraging self-discovery, offer guidance through that process. Encourage higher order thinking, where you give questions that become more and more challenging and touch more and more on conceptual knowledge.

 

For example, in football and in education there are some that rely on memorization, but the students that understand the entire concept and how it all goes together are the ones that see the most success. Football this leads to play recognition on either side of the ball, which is a huge advantage. In the classroom this allows students to connect multiple concepts and realize mastery. 

 

Basically they need to understand not just what they are doing, but why and how. Great thing about sports is the structure they provide, which is very important to learning.

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I'm a teacher, a HS coach and a part time pro baseball scout. There is no predictor. There are so many factors and the hard truth is the majority fail.

Ultimately IMO, there has to be a deep seeded love/desire of self betterment. Some have it and some don't. It can be taught. My son struggled reading and I had to convince him that reading was fun. In the past year he's gone from almost a poor reader to the highest group in his class, just because he wants to do it.

My son is 9 and my nephew is 9. They have played baseball all their lives together. My nephew is a more natural athlete but struggles mentally sometimes. Gets overly nervous and emotional. My son is the type that needs more consistent reps but is a better hitter and is calm cool and collected at all times. His emotions don't come into play. He doesn't get nervous, my nephew does. They are pros and cons for each. My nephew had more fire but it hurts him at times. My son is too laid back but hit really helps him at times. In school, they both do well. My son likes school more though and doesn't usually want to miss any days. My nephew misses frequently. He tend to be sick a lot as well while my son is rarely sick. My son is an only child, my nephew has an older brother and sister. I think that's why he's more outgoing.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but I've coached and scouted a lot of kids and there are so many examples all over the place.

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Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We have national level training that primarily cites Piaget and it made me think that there has to be newer theories on how kids learn than something from the 1930s(?). 

 

check out multiple intelligences, which covers various ways in which people learn best. While sports are primarily kinesthetic there are still other ways of learning that can be used in sports. Biggest thing is as code said, which is motivation. Some may have an interest or desire to be there, but taking that to the next level, the desire to try hard for the purpose of getting better, is very difficult. Most will only go as far as natural abilities take them. You can push them, but really they have to want to be pushed and have to be willing to push themselves. That becomes more difficult as they get older, get a bit more cynical and also grow into comfort zones, and also they are growing and still figuring themselves and the world out.

 

Add on top of that everything they go through in life and what some have to overcome or get trapped in, and that they can't all be reached the same way, and you see (as you already have) how difficult it is and why so many come up short (though some do improve later on in life). It's hard to predict with some what the exact "kick in the pants" is that they ned to get everything in gear. That's the challenge, but man is it rewarding, as I'm sure you know, when you help some achieve that high level.

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check out multiple intelligences, which covers various ways in which people learn best. While sports are primarily kinesthetic there are still other ways of learning that can be used in sports. Biggest thing is as code said, which is motivation. Some may have an interest or desire to be there, but taking that to the next level, the desire to try hard for the purpose of getting better, is very difficult. Most will only go as far as natural abilities take them. You can push them, but really they have to want to be pushed and have to be willing to push themselves. That becomes more difficult as they get older, get a bit more cynical and also grow into comfort zones, and also they are growing and still figuring themselves and the world out.

 

 

Thanks. Yeah, each thing we do the explanation involves an auditory explanation, a visual demonstration, and a dry run to hit the different learning styles. I like the Problem Based approach you guys talked about above—will look into that more and see how to apply it.

 

My own kids are going to start school soon and just need ideas on how to be a better resource for them. 

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Repetition is magic.

 

Proper repetition. Not poor formed repetition.

 

Furthermore, I find the worst coaches that I've encountered are the ones who dumb down concepts and attempt to make kids memorize that concept. Challenging kids with concepts and having them understand the entire concept is a great way for kids to work together to understand and ask questions.

 

For a football example, if I tell the slot receiver that he has a flat route and the outside receiver he has a fade. That's great. Heck, maybe I even name the play with something cool. So they'd understand that when I called "Landslide" (Totally fictitious name) that the slot had a flat route and the outside has a go. Great! Right? I don't think so. What happens if I run that play from a trips set? If it's generally a mirrored concept (same to both sides) what do they do when I call it to a trips formation? I'll tell you: Get lost and confused and frustrated. What happens if my best outside receiver goes down and the slot needs to play in that spot? Do you think the slot will know the outside receiver's route? Or do you think, since he doesn't need to know the concept, he'll only know the slot's route?

 

The key to coaching is to teach understanding. You can do that in many ways. You can have it student centered, where you guide them with questions but ultimately they figure it out on their own. You can teach the concepts by breaking down what each coverage is... There's a lot you can do.

 

If I had more time I'd get more into specifics. But in my opinion, kids need to understand the why, not just the what.

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1.) Are methods for teaching and acquisition of motor skills (in sports) the same for more academic-type skills?

 

2.) What are some predictors of real academic success (actual learning not just good grades or high standardized test scores).

 

 

As the husband of a teacher and a know it all, I feel qualified to answer.

 

1.  Who knows

 

2.  Parents, parents, parents, and parents.  Parents are important too, though sometimes its parents. 

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I teach college freshman, and I don't coach, but I'll contribute a little pedagogy:

1. Bloom's taxonomy. The idea here is to build up from lower order thinking to higher order thinking. Here's a diagram:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/BloomsCognitiveDomain.svg

I apply this by using assessments that require different kinds of cognitive skills. For example, I might ask:

"1A. What is philosophy? (memory, understanding). 1B. Are you philosophical? (application, analysis)."

OR

"2A. Explain Cartesian skepticism (memory, understanding). 2B. Do you find Descartes' argument persuasive? Why or why not? (analysis, evaluation)."

You might also check out the exam questions in this article for more examples: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/03/24/the-brainy-questions-on-finlands-only-high-stakes-standardized-test/

2. Socratic method. Teach by asking questions instead of giving answers, dialogue instead of monologue.

Here is an interesting blog by a guy who taught 3rd graders binary arithmetic in an hour using Socratic method (only asking questions):

http://www.garlikov.com/Soc_Meth.html

This isn't quite what you ask for in the OP, but I hope it helps.

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Repetition is magic.

 

Proper repetition. Not poor formed repetition.

 

 

As the great Cal Ripken would say: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

 

Thanks. Yeah, each thing we do the explanation involves an auditory explanation, a visual demonstration, and a dry run to hit the different learning styles. I like the Problem Based approach you guys talked about above—will look into that more and see how to apply it.

 

My own kids are going to start school soon and just need ideas on how to be a better resource for them. 

 

Good luck to your kids. The simple fact that they have a parent who cares and researches and has experience as a leader means they'll very likely be just fine.

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Thanks, but it was just a realization that I spend a lot of hours everyday finding a better way to teach my players how to play a sport better. But I don't come anywhere near as close to investing that amount of time for my own kids—what they need to know at what age, how to get it across better, and what really matters. 

 

I don't plan on being an over-bearing, helicopter parent. I see that enough with the kids in my club and I wish they would back off.  But I also don't believe it's enough for me to just put them on a school bus in the morning.

 

Another thing that worries me though is the environment they'll get thrown into at school. My club, we can incubate talent and select good fits and highly motivated/self motivated kids. Can't necessarily do that with school. You get thrown in and your class is your class. Yeah, you might get into a gifted and talented program. We are on the cusp of weighing if the cost of private school is worth it or not, as well. 

 

I could care less about having a straight A student. I want my kids to be literate and understand quantitative stuff to a useful degree in their lives (how far they want to take that is up to them). 

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Thanks, but it was just a realization that I spend a lot of hours everyday finding a better way to teach my players how to play a sport better. But I don't come anywhere near as close to investing that amount of time for my own kids—what they need to know at what age, how to get it across better, and what really matters. 

 

I don't plan on being an over-bearing, helicopter parent. I see that enough with the kids in my club and I wish they would back off.  But I also don't believe it's enough for me to just put them on a school bus in the morning.

 

Another thing that worries me though is the environment they'll get thrown into at school. My club, we can incubate talent and select good fits and highly motivated/self motivated kids. Can't necessarily do that with school. You get thrown in and your class is your class. Yeah, you might get into a gifted and talented program. We are on the cusp of weighing if the cost of private school is worth it or not, as well. 

 

I could care less about having a straight A student. I want my kids to be literate and understand quantitative stuff to a useful degree in their lives (how far they want to take that is up to them). 

 

In my experience, many private school teachers know less about learning and how to foster it than public school teachers.

 

It is true that generally you get a better mix of students, but private schools don't tend to have to hire certified teachers so you can get somebody that has no formal training in education.  In addition, private schools don't tend to require continuing education work so even if they do have a background in education, it doesn't get updated/refreshed.

 

A lot of times private schools will hire people that have a very good background in the area they are teaching, but very to little no background in education and while having somebody that has a good background in an area sounds good, you can actually run into an issue with respect to what is called unconscious competence with respect to them teaching.

 

Now that isn't universally true, and I know plenty of public school teachers that are doing things that they should know better than to do (and it isn't just individual teachers, but even groups where they meet to generate strategies, and it is like how did you guys walk out of a meeting and think this was a good idea), and there are private schools that are very good at fostering good learning environments (beyond just having students that have parents that really care).

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