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Why Gruden got no honeymoon--


Burgold

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At the start of this season, I remember a lot of six win predictions for the Redskins from Redskin fans themselves.  Now, usually Redskins fans are probably giving us the most optimistic look for the Redskins, but we looked at our line, safety, and a rookie head coach and said... okay, 6 wins.  So, why when the year unfolded in the way most predicted is the mood so damned bad.  Part of it is the how... After the bye, we were losing badly and ugly (except for the last two games, but I really think the fault is that this doesn't feel like a rookie regime. It doesn't feel like a fresh start.

 

Gruden kept the o line coach, elevated McVay, and brought back Hilliard.  So, three offensive coaches know the lay of the land already. That doesn't feel new. It doesn't feel raw.  The need for training wheels feels lessened because these guys should already have a bunch of insider knowledge.

 

On the defensive side it's even worse.  Haslett and most of his team has been here for close to five years. One new guy, Olividoti is also a returnee. Baker actually is new, but we kept hearing great things about him and he has a hell of a pedigree.  So, that side of the ball should have hit the ground running.  No excuse for it to be lousy.

 

So, while Gruden himself is a rookie, that's about it. Not only that, this team largely worked together in Tampa so they should have cohesion.  By keeping Haslett and most of the defensive staff, Gruden and Allen don't get that clean slate.  And as I said, by keeping or bringing back so many on offense, it also weakens the argument that they are new.

 

So that 6-10 season feels like one that is owned by a coach and front office that's been here five years.  I think that is Allen/Snyder's fault. It could have worked the other way. The consistency and insider knowledge could have given Gruden a really smooth and strong start, but it didn't.

 

I think two other factors explain why Gruden never had a honeymoon period with the Redskins.

 

First, is the stink of nepotism.  Almost everyone hires someone they know and have a relationship with. It's SOP and okay business, but the ties were too close and familial. The Tampa connection made everyone uneasy. More, this wasn't bringing Gibbs old crew back. This wasn't bringing back our glory years!. This was bringing back a crew that had a few sparks, but weren't all that great.  So, a bunch of people hated the hire just on the grounds of nepotism (which I thought unfair b/c I'd heard his name as a candidate for a few years now)

 

Second, Shanahan really made us miserable.  He put us in such a low, cynical place that few were ready to believe and give anyone a chance... especially, because keeping Haslett kept around the stink of the Shanny years.  Add the cherry which was the non stop name nonsense and Redskins fans were fatigued and worn down before the season started. 

 

Then finally, there was the bye. If we were a mediocre/poor team before the bye... losing to the Vikings (because of Haslett) seemed to crush and break this team. They completely lost it after the bye and it took games to get anything back.  Gruden, Haslett, et al. lacked the ability to rally the troops.  For a while, they completely not only gave up on the season, but themselves.

 

Gruden should probably gotten more of a honeymoon this season, but they stacked the deck against him.... possibly because they were trying to help him, possibly because they were being cheap, but ultimately, they did it to themselves and to us.

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I think the FO knows Gruden was extremely limited based upon the state the team was in. I am praying that they spend their first two picks on offensive linemen. We need another pair of stud bookend tackles ala Samuels and Jansen.

I think that's true, Planter. The FO will give Gruden another year (unless they have a deal for Harbaugh), but I don't think it's the tackles as much as the interior. We need to upgrade Chester, Lavauo, and probably Litch first.

 

Keeping Haslett backfired in a huge way as far a PR and public sentiment esp. because the defense failed so miserably on the field... probably even worse than we expected. Haslett is not a terrible defensive coach until his offense scores and then he becomes the worst DC in NFL history.  He almost always surrenders a revenge score and gives up a lead.

 

Gruden needs to take ownership of this team and the reins even if it is a bluff though. Saying it will be a team decision is a cop out. He should say that he will evaluate and then do what's best for the team... not that he may have some input. The latter undermines him in front of his players.  He shouldn't cut off his own balls.

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Whatever the situation was with the staff/FO Jay was part of the process. So for me he doesn't get a pass for the how the staff was assembled.

Also, and this is important. Jay failed to develop Griffin. And Jay on his own created an adversarial relationship between him and Griffin in the media.

All that would be tolerable if he was a competent HC in other phases or even won games with the others QBs on the roster.

Jay will be back, if only because the optic would be bad if he was fired. But Jay has made big mistakes this year that he alone owns. Hopefully Jay will be a better HC next year which would start with assembling a better coaching staff and making a decision at the QB position BEFORE the season starts.

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I believe the fanbase wanted to give him a grace period but the fans quickly realized he is on the level of  Zorn. He talks a big game but his press conference antics and his awful lack of command of the team killed the thought of giving him a honeymoon. He has failed in all areas of being a HC. 

 

Some will say, well it's his first year and he needs time to "grow" into the position. For those I say, has he given the same to the QB that the team spent a king's ransom on to acquire? Not only has he not shown the aptitude to handle the press - he has failed at communications 101 - he hitched his wagon to assistant coaches who have either not proven themselves or have proven to be incompetent. 

 

For all of this, I believe he should be fired.

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Gruden should probably gotten more of a honeymoon this season, but they stacked the deck against him.... possibly because they were trying to help him, possibly because they were being cheap, but ultimately, they did it to themselves and to us.

 

Don't feel like debating this point here, but I have plenty on other threads and that is, Jay's relationship with Haz is well established, he's praising him to this day and telling media people privately that he wants him back.  As for the other coaches he kept -- Jay supposedly had the right to fire or retain whoever he wanted.  Some argue that.  But if so, how did it work out where Jay actually did let three of the coaches who were retained go?  Seems clear he kept the guys he wanted and discarded the ones he didn't want. 

 

Trying to think of what Jay has improved on this team this year, maybe the special teams have improved from horrible to bad and he does a much more entertaining press conference than Shanny. 

 

Even Jay's supposed niche, offensive game planing seems to be vanilla and unimaginative.   The rap on him in Cincy is he was pass happy and abandoned the run too easily.  That has followed him here.

 

Does he deserve another year, sure why not.  But even among Jay supporters I haven't really seen much of a defense of him outside of he tells it like it is and some really enjoy his RG3 bashing and see it as him giving it to Danny -- outside of that, I haven't really seen even the "Jay" people put forward a good argument for what they like. 

 

I think if Jay didn't have RG3 to trash and galvanize the fan base against and direct attention on -- he would have had a much tougher year with the fans.

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Oh, I don't think I'd argue that Jay wasn't a willing victim or an accomplice to much of this, Skinsinparadice... I'm just looking at why the Honeymoon never happened, not in preseason, the season, or even in end of the year evaluations.

 

The reason?  In 2012, much of this same cast won 7 games in a row.  A lot of that was due to a brilliant one read scheme that no longer works.... but a lot of us cling to the fact that we have the talent to win the division again and that Shanny was just undermining the whole franchise. 

 

So rather than look at 2012 as an outlier, we looked at 2013 as an outlier.

 

We're all guilty of wearing the rose colored glasses at one time or another... but I think some of the more harsh advocates against Gruden should get to interview with the Redskins... cause I'm sure the truly believe that they can do better.

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Oh, I don't think I'd argue that Jay wasn't a willing victim or an accomplice to much of this, Skinsinparadice... I'm just looking at why the Honeymoon never happened, not in preseason, the season, or even in end of the year evaluations.

 

OK. I think part of that is fatigue -- we've been through the new beginnings drill so many times that we've become immune.  Also, Jay while being a decent O coordinator was nothing arguably exciting, he was a bit of a wild card.   The NFL insiders for the most part didn't rave about the hire.

 

This team hasn't done well going for wild card coaches -- Spurrier, Norv, Zorn.  Not that we've done that much better with established guys:  Gibbs, Marty, Shanny -- but its seemed to go a little better and at least you are acquiring the hope that the veteran HC will bring the winning ways of their previous stints.  

 

I think with Jay too, the team didn't get off to a hot start so that fed into the doubts pretty quickly.  And there really wasn't a side of the ball to get us going.  Even in Gibbs first year back where the offense struggled, the defense was elite.  There was something you can look forward to.  Watching this team, there really isn't a unit that wows you and gets you going.  Then you get Jay pouring gasoline into the fire of the RG3 story.  

 

For some of us, part of our excitement was to have Jay the supposed QB guru develop RG3.  Not only didn't that happen but he basically talks about him like he's some undrafted FA scrub -- as Skip Bayless of all people likes to say.  That's not fun for me.  I'd feel differently if he took one of the other QBs on the roster and showed them to be the goods, but that didn't happen either.  In a way, not only didn't Jay bring improvement or excitement to the team but he quickly took the air out of the balloon while doing it.

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Gruden was the only coach who wanted to be a part of this mess. I guess he wanted to become a HC, the opportunity was there he seized it no matter how. He has no excuses, he knew Allen, Haslett, and how Snyder is. Ultimately what goes around comes around, no honeymoon.

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Gruden was the only coach who wanted to be a part of this mess.

I really doubt that's true.

 

After all, Shanny lasted four years and no one could deny his firing was deserved. Gibbs left on his own accord.  So, the rumored quick trigger finger is a thing of the past.  Now that said, it's not the most attractive team, but given that there are only 32 of these jobs available on Earth... I bet there were a lot of egos that wanted the gig.  Money, fame, power, possibility are great drivers. 

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We're all guilty of wearing the rose colored glasses at one time or another... but I think some of the more harsh advocates against Gruden should get to interview with the Redskins... cause I'm sure the truly believe that they can do better.

 

I am not picking on this post, just using it as an example.   If all we can hang our hat on is:  he's inherited a mess, things were bad when he got here, Bruce and Danny or RG3 stink, and Jay is so honest -- depending on whose posting -- its just IMO nothing to hang your hat on.  

 

Really I have not seen a really good post about why Jay specifically is a good coach.  Saying he has excuses for looking bad -- is almost depressing to me.   I'd love to get jazzed about something that Jay specifically does well.  Something to look forward to about Jay that has nothing to do with his supposed obstacles. 

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I think that's true, Planter. The FO will give Gruden another year (unless they have a deal for Harbaugh), but I don't think it's the tackles as much as the interior. We need to upgrade Chester, Lavauo, and probably Litch first.

 

the battle of the beltway would certainly have more intrigue! Imagine the bmore harbaugh telling Md-ers to be Ravens fans and Skins fans... made me laugh

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For a proper Honeymoon you need a bed of roses, this team was no bed of roses. honeymoon181.jpg

 

I would have preferred that upon hiring Gruden, every single coach would have been fired. You want to change culture, then change management. To be fair to Gruden, he was not handed the keys, just allowed to drive around the block in Daddy's car. 

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The reason?  In 2012, much of this same cast won 7 games in a row.  A lot of that was due to a brilliant one read scheme that no longer works.... but a lot of us cling to the fact that we have the talent to win the division again and that Shanny was just undermining the whole franchise. 

 

So rather than look at 2012 as an outlier, we looked at 2013 as an outlier.

 

We're all guilty of wearing the rose colored glasses at one time or another... but I think some of the more harsh advocates against Gruden should get to interview with the Redskins... cause I'm sure the truly believe that they can do better.

 

You're saying the fans were fooled by 2012, but based on the actions and comments made by Allen it seems the FO looked at 2013 as an outlier as well.  There was little change to the coaching staff, FO and roster.  Leads one to believe they thought this team was closer to 2012 then 2013.  That's been the story with this team under Snyder.  There's no rebuild.  It's let's tweak this and add this and we can contend.  Then a late season playoff run makes them feel justified.   

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.....

We're all guilty of wearing the rose colored glasses at one time or another... but I think some of the more harsh advocates against Gruden should get to interview with the Redskins... cause I'm sure the truly believe that they can do better.

 

Oh HELL NO lil' bro'! 

 

This is like that time you tricked me into getting double ficking algebra detention on the pretence Mrs Henderson was into me when it turned out not only did she hate boys;  you wanted Jenny Henderson alone in her house! You know how much I hated math! ****ER!

 

I'ma onto you! You only want me to get the gig and make an ass of myself again so you can snag freebie life time tickets. 

 

Not this time buster!  :angry:.

 

Hail. 

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The reasons he got no honeymoon were: 1) He is supposed to be the guy to develop QBs and he went through three this season, all getting worse as they played more. Griffin has looked better the last two weeks, but many feel he should have been at this point earlier. If he was as raw as the critics indicated, why did he play less than just about any starter in the league in the preseason? 2) Same s#$! different coach... right out of the shoot we lost an opener on redzone turnovers, then saw ST debacles weeks 1 and 3, a Haz D give-up 37 points to spoil Kirk's first start, pre snap penalties and poor clock management. Honestly, the worst thing about the 1-5 start was the team looked worse in every facet of the game then last season, which seemed impossible. 3) His "honesty" at press conferences was refreshing at first, but went stale when he never took responsibility for how the team played, defending the worst line in the NFL while throwing Robert under the bus left and right, etc. If you are going to be the guy who holds people accountable, hold everyone equally accountable.

 

The record, might end-up near where some predicted, but a four and a six game losing streak in the same season is tough to pull-off and there were stretches this season where it looked more dysfunctional than ever. Add that Houston and Cleveland have a shot at winning seasons with their first year coaches and Jay gets a "F" this year from me. I do not care how much people hate Snyder, there is more talent on our offense than either one of those teams. If the line is too small to run a WCO (cannot develop a pocket passer with NO POCKET), then Jay's first mistake was keeping the unit pretty much in tack -- especially the right side -- and keeping the ZBS, although in isolation this move made sense.

 

Jay, Bruce and Dan should do a joint Press Conference at the end of the season and acknowledge: 1) RGIII is the best QB on this team and he made progress the last quarter of the season. He goes into TC as the number 1, although this is a huge offseason for him, obviously, and the team has to upgrade the OL for any QB to have a chance to develop.  2) Allen will relinquish the football side of his position to a qualified GM. I don't care if it is AJ Smith, although he hired Norv, he also drafted well in SD. 3) The new GM will select a new DC to replace the weakest link on the staff.

 

The above would wet my appetite until FA and the draft. I know I am in the minority, but I still believe this team has enough in place on offense to compete for the division next year. provided there are three new starting OLmen at the start of next season. If Chris Chester or Louvero are still on the roster, I will question how this team can be better than 5-7 wins. A new line, 9-11 is possible.

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I really doubt that's true.

 

After all, Shanny lasted four years and no one could deny his firing was deserved. Gibbs left on his own accord.  So, the rumored quick trigger finger is a thing of the past.  Now that said, it's not the most attractive team, but given that there are only 32 of these jobs available on Earth... I bet there were a lot of egos that wanted the gig.  Money, fame, power, possibility are great drivers. 

Our coaching search/interviews included: Ken Whisenhunt, Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, Jay Gruden, Lovie Smith, David Shaw, Art Briles, Todd Bowles, Greg Roman, Kevin Sumlin, James Franklin, Jim Caldwell, Darrell Bevell.

In this list you have college coaches and NFL position coaches who could have gotten a promo at the next level. Most of them weren't even asking for the job, we tried and failed to convince them to sign. In the end all of them declined but Jay, and I bet Allen pulled the strings behind the curtain.

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I am not picking on this post, just using it as an example.   If all we can hang our hat on is:  he's inherited a mess, things were bad when he got here, Bruce and Danny or RG3 stink, and Jay is so honest -- depending on whose posting -- its just IMO nothing to hang your hat on.  

 

Really I have not seen a really good post about why Jay specifically is a good coach.  Saying he has excuses for looking bad -- is almost depressing to me.   I'd love to get jazzed about something that Jay specifically does well.  Something to look forward to about Jay that has nothing to do with his supposed obstacles. 

 

The only strong argument for Jay coming back is 1 year isn't enough to judge a HC.  But I'm with you.  Jay appears over his head.  There's nothing you can point to that says he's a good HC.

 

That being said, the Skins FO is not setup to support a 1st time HC.  Jay needs a strong GM who will get him the players he needs and help shape the roster.  Jay's ****ed with Allen.   

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See, no honeymoon ;)

 

It's not fair to Jay.  The team was being cheap by keeping coaches and many players that probably wouldn't get a job elsewhere.  So Dan playing his best role as the Scrooge stuck Jay with too many people who were part of the problem. 

 

DG:  AJ Smith knows more about football than you and I do by a mile.  He says there's no franchise QB on this team and I agree.  Robert has so many fundamental flaws that it would take the ghost of Bill Walsh to fix his game.  Your blind love for #10 has really clouded your judgment. 

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