rictus58 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Pretty Damning article about the corruption at UNC....which has been known for quite some time. Yet the ACC/NCAA has done nothing at this point to punish them. I'm sure in light of this, they will get the pounding they deserve. Chapel Hill, North Carolina (CNN) -- For 18 years, thousands of students at the prestigious University of North Carolina took fake "paper classes," and advisers funneled athletes into the program to keep them eligible, according to a scathing independent report released Wednesday. "These counselors saw the paper classes and the artificially high grades they yielded as key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible," Kenneth Wainstein wrote in his report. He conducted an eight-month investigation into the scandal, which has plagued the university for nearly five years. Four employees have been fired and five more disciplined because of their roles. One other former employee had honorary status removed, Chancellor Carol Folt said Wednesday. Wainstein is the former federal prosecutor hired by UNC to independently investigate the academic fraud brought to light by CNN, the Raleigh News & Observer and other media outlets. In all, the report estimates, at least 3,100 students took the paper classes, but adds the number "very likely falls far short of the true number." http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 See, there's no need to pay these student athletes as they are getting a world class education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 See, there's no need to pay these student athletes as they are getting a world class education. I used that line yesterday. Thief!!! Thief!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 As a UNC bball fan, I'm disappointed, but it's not like every other NCAA school isn't doing the same thing. UNC just didn't do a good job of covering its tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 As a UNC bball fan, I'm disappointed, but it's not like every other NCAA school isn't doing the same thing. UNC just didn't do a good job of covering its tracks. We can all agree that there is some shady business going down at universities across the country. To the level of this? I'd have a hard time believing that. This is neary 20 years of a concerted effort to keep students stupid and playing. across different athletic programs. I love how all other coaches KNEW this was going on. But not Roy Williams. Nope. No clue. I'd love to see former student athletes sue the crap out of UNC. I'd love to see the NCAA strip them of multiple titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 We can all agree that there is some shady business going down at universities across the country. To the level of this? I'd have a hard time believing that. This is neary 20 years of a concerted effort to keep students stupid and playing. I love how all other coaches KNEW this was going on. But not Roy Williams. Nope. No clue. I'd love to see former student athletes sue the crap out of UNC. I'd love to see the NCAA strip them of multipe titles. This does seem crazy, I agree. I just feel like there's usually one story a year about how "Such and Such University" had some sort of academic probelm going on. Once the NCAA realizes that these kids are in school to play sports and not so much for school, it'll be much easier for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Actually, I've gotta give some props to UNC for actually coming out with this. Yeah, it's honesty decades after the fact, but it's still better than the "cover it up forever" attitude we see everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 This does seem crazy, I agree. I just feel like there's usually one story a year about how "Such and Such University" had some sort of academic probelm going on. Once the NCAA realizes that these kids are in school to play sports and not so much for school, it'll be much easier for them. The NCAA knows it. Everybody in the business knows it. Although, I would hasten to point out that it would be more accurate to say that "some of these kids . . . " I will once again relate that, when I was at OU, had a friend who was a senior in Electrical Engineering, who told me a story. Seems that, in his Senior electronics lab, he was assigned to be lab partners with the star center of the school's basketball team. Friend went to the professor, to complain, because he didn't want to be partners with the Jock. Professor explained that the Jock had already been to see him, to complain. Because the jock didn't want to have a lab partner. He wanted to do his project solo, so that nobody could claim that he was carried by his lab partner. So, while I'm well aware that some student athletes cheat like crazy, and expect the university to cheat, for them, that there are others who actually do play by the rules. I don't think it's a case of the NCAA operating under the delusion that all student athletes are there for the quality education. I think the case is that the NCAA believes that they should be there for the education. (Although, granted, I'm not certain of that. After all, I assume that the NCAA is made up of people who worked their way up though various universities athletic programs. It's possible that they're no more honest than the universities.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 We've been studying this (as Duke fans) for a few years now. Glad the NCAA finally decided it was worth their <how serious> attention. Not that we educated folks are snobs or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 only place it could be worse than UNC would be private institutions that have big time Football or Hoops programs. Also, If this were Wake or GT, I think the ACC would have come down hard quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 only place it could be worse than UNC would be private institutions that have big time Football or Hoops programs. Also, If this were Wake or GT, I think the ACC would have come down hard quickly. Nope. Wake would be safe. They are protected under Rule 1 Sub-Section 1 of the ACC charter: "No Carolina schools shall ever be punished lest we lose Food Lion as a sponsor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 We've been studying this (as Duke fans) for a few years now. Glad the NCAA finally decided it was worth their <how serious> attention. Not that we educated folks are snobs or anything. http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/101227/ Little old and not much detail, but I do remember hearing about something similar at Duke back in the day. Maybe not as widespread and for as long as what went on at UNC, but just more evidence that this is happening all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Hog Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 only place it could be worse than UNC would be private institutions that have big time Football or Hoops programs. Also, If this were Wake or GT, I think the ACC would have come down hard quickly. This, and... FSU, or Clemson, or NC State, or VA Tech, or anyone else in the conference. I have friends that are Terp fans / alum, and they for years complained about the Tobacco Rd. bias, particularly how it seems UNC and Duke get favorable treatment. I have Clemson buddies too, and same thing. Those guys hate UNC and Duke, but UNC more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Your article is from 2002, Matt... the first recruits to not graduate were Elton Brand and Corey Maggette under Coach K, to my knowledge, though I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 This is worse than benefits given in secret or cash payments. What is a UNC degree worth if you know they allowed sham classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Your article is from 2002, Matt... the first recruits to not graduate were Elton Brand and Corey Maggette under Coach K, to my knowledge, though I may be wrong. Again, I know it's old and I can't remember everything that happened with it, but just showing that this isn't just something UNC has tried to do. It's happening at multiple schools across the country. Maybe not to the degree that it was at UNC, but it's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Nope. Wake would be safe. They are protected under Rule 1 Sub-Section 1 of the ACC charter: "No Carolina schools shall ever be punished lest we lose Food Lion as a sponsor" I think that's the BoJangles/Jay Williams "3 year college degree while playing summer hoops in Europe" rule. Coupled with the Duhon/Battier "Boosters will hire your parents paying six figures to do basically nothing while you play for Duke" policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Not buying that this happens as frequently as some people say. One of my students last semester was the star PF for our basketball program (we made the NCAA tourney). This kid was not very smart but there was no way he was cheating his way through classes or taking fake courses. He did have tons of help from tutors but that was it. I've heard similar stories from friends at other universities, several of them at schools with good basketball programs (UMD being one of these schools). This reflects really bad on UNC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins0721 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 only place it could be worse than UNC would be private institutions that have big time Football or Hoops programs. Also, If this were Wake or GT, I think the ACC would have come down hard quickly. If this happened to the Terps, the entire program would have been shut down a year ago by the ACC. I can't wait to see how Swofford handles this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfoom Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Not buying that this happens as frequently as some people say. One of my students last semester was the star PF for our basketball program (we made the NCAA tourney). This kid was not very smart but there was no way he was cheating his way through classes or taking fake courses. He did have tons of help from tutors but that was it. I've heard similar stories from friends at other universities, several of them at schools with good basketball programs (UMD being one of these schools). This reflects really bad on UNC. Thank you. It is so easy to say "Hey, this stuff happens everywhere. Everyone knows it, but only one school gets caught, but the rest are just as guilty". Of course, they offer NO proof at all. Do I think that there are certain benefits given to scholarship players, especially at big schools with 'big time' programs? Yes. Do I think that entire sections of schools are blatantly cheating and giving players passing grades and diplomas and don't require any effort? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 If this happened to the Terps, the entire program would have been shut down a year ago by the ACC. I can't wait to see how Swofford MIS-handles this. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Penalize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 in all seriousness. If all this stuff is true, Then UNC shouldn't be on TV for a long time in any sport. If that means non-conference teams back out of playing them in certain sports, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Just pointing out Dexter Manley, folks. This kind of thing has been going at a lot of schools, and for a long time. No, not every athlete cheats. And no, UNC isn't the only school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Not buying that this happens as frequently as some people say. One of my students last semester was the star PF for our basketball program (we made the NCAA tourney). This kid was not very smart but there was no way he was cheating his way through classes or taking fake courses. He did have tons of help from tutors but that was it. I've heard similar stories from friends at other universities, several of them at schools with good basketball programs (UMD being one of these schools). This reflects really bad on UNC. Word here was that Marbury had 6 tutors to get through one single solitary season here at GT. I love him & all he's done, both on & off-court, but I would be severely hard-pressed to put the words "student" & "athlete" together in his description . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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