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Boston Globe: Vote all you want. The secret government won’t change.


Pedro

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http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed

 

 

Why did the face in the Oval Office change but the policies remain the same? Critics tend to focus on Obama himself, a leader who perhaps has shifted with politics to take a harder line. But Tufts University political scientist Michael J. Glennon has a more pessimistic answer: Obama couldn’t have changed policies much even if he tried.

 

Thoughts on this and what it would require to change?

 

I see problems in every state institution over here.  The police are run by the police for the police, same with the NHS etc etc.  How do you run a country without the culture of them and us springing up, or the problem of people being in a job 10 years and just not giving a damn any more, yet staying in said organisation for another 30 years etc etc

 

 

 

Also: Been thinking for a while that I need a 'no taxation without representation' type of thing to kick off.  The reasoning is that in the UK we vote a guy to represent us in parliament, who heads off to the nation's capital and then votes how his/her party tells them too.

 

Said voting is usually to back up up lobbyists from (or funded by) large corporations who then use my elected official and their/my vote to dictate policy.

 

I'm at the point where I want to vote on every issue, with repercussions (in simple terms with lots of easy to see 'issues') i.e. if I'm voting on state schools, my kids have to be being educated in them.  If I'm voting to send troops my name is put on the call up list etc

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a hard to move bureaucracy is a feature, not a flaw....

 

when the leader is able to spin the dial on his own, you end up with Putin and Chavez

 

Is there a point in time that the bureaucracy gets to hard to spin?

 

If so, how do you determine if we've gotten there?

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There's no secret government.   That's too simplistic of an analysis, and serves no purpose other than to free oneself from trying to do anything about anything.

 

There is only government by humans, with all of the failings and inefficiencies that necessarily come with it.  Anyone who expects a perfect government needs to look to the past and see that all of the innumerable governments that came before also sucked in innumerable ways.   We need government, all we can do is try to improve the government we have.  

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I have always said that when a new president is elected, he's taken into a room and informed which of the policies he ran on he can go ahead with and which ones he'll just have to swallow. 

 

Who or what governing body informs him (or her) of this? I have no idea.

 

Anyway, there's the government and then there's the government's government, which we have no knowledge of. I know I sound crazy but the only thing crazier is why our presidents and congresses are so helpless when they are SUPPOSED to be the most powerful on Earth.

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I have always said that when a new president is elected, he's taken into a room and informed which of the policies he ran on he can go ahead with and which ones he'll just have to swallow. 

 

Who or what governing body informs him (or her) of this? I have no idea.

 

Anyway, there's the government and then there's the government's government, which we have no knowledge of. I know I sound crazy but the only thing crazier is why our presidents and congresses are so helpless when they are SUPPOSED to be the most powerful on Earth.

 

it happens with most every politician long before any power is gained, the body simply expands along the way.

 

if you don't know who all that is you are not paying attention.

 

they are not meant to be powerful,but rather servants.

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There's no secret government.   That's too simplistic of an analysis, and serves no purpose other than to free oneself from trying to do anything about anything.

 

There is only government by humans, with all of the failings and inefficiencies that necessarily come with it.  Anyone who expects a perfect government needs to look to the past and see that all of the innumerable governments that came before also sucked in innumerable ways.   We need government, all we can do is try to improve the government we have.  

 

At face value I agree with everything you wrote.  Perfect government can't exist and we do the best we can.  Comparing what we have to those that have existed throughout human history, I'd agree that we are doing a damn fine job.  There are reasons to feel good.   

 

One problem however is that I think there is a large disconnect between how the government actually works and how people think it works.  I don't think most people understand what role money plays in politics or just how much power the two parties have.  I also think American pride gets in the way of identifying corruption and government that is growing too self serving. 

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At face value I agree with everything you wrote.  Perfect government can't exist and we do the best we can.  Comparing what we have to those that have existed throughout human history, I'd agree that we are doing a damn fine job.  There are reasons to feel good.   

 

One problem however is that I think there is a large disconnect between how the government actually works and how people think it works.  I don't think most people understand what role money plays in politics or just how much power the two parties have.  I also think American pride gets in the way of identifying corruption and government that is growing too self serving. 

 

 

I agree with all of this.  

 

Change is difficult, and it doesn't usually happen until things get really bad.  The direct influence of money on politics has grown dramatically in recent years, but it may be a few more years before we know if there will be any effective reaction in the body politic.

Wait. Did I miss something?

Remlik

 

 

Don't worry boss, I'm putting the sheep back in the pen.

 

Your toady,

Predicto

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I have always said that when a new president is elected, he's taken into a room and informed which of the policies he ran on he can go ahead with and which ones he'll just have to swallow.

Had a friend once relate to me a supposedly true story about Jimmy Carter's first hours in office.

Said that, after the speeches and the swearing in and all of that, Carter sat down in the Oval Office for his first-ever military briefing.

And the Colonel or whatever it was, is explaining to him all of his military command channels, and the operation of the "football", and his options, if he wants to order military actions, and our nuclear security, and this is how you order nukes, and this is how you use the Hotline, and here's your secure channel to NORAD, and if the Russians launch at us, this is how we'll detect it, and this is how much warning we'll have, and this is how survivable our nuclear weapons are, and if there's ever a crisis, you just say the word, and we'll have you and your family in a secure, nuke=proof, facility within 20 minutes after you give us the word, and . . . .

And Carter looked at his watch, and said "Go".

(20 minutes later, he was still in the Oval Office.)

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I have always said that when a new president is elected, he's taken into a room and informed which of the policies he ran on he can go ahead with and which ones he'll just have to swallow. 

 

 

It's not when he is elected. Its well before he even shows up on the scene. If these guys (Bush Jr/Obama), aren't on board with the "program" they don't even get air time, magazine articles, big wigs suddenly drooling over them when you never heard of them before, etc. Their election has nothing to do with differences. What they have in common is why they are allowed to run with any media support.

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I use to jump into this stuff all the time and try to break down whats wrong and why are people not seeing it and blah blah. A few months ago I came to the conclusion that no one really cares enough to do anything about it so thats that.

So did I, but the majority of people are too stuck in their day to day grind to really care or do something about it other than grumble. We will just keep switching back and forth between left and right controlling this or that without anything major getting done until something devasting happens and forces people's attention on it. The last couple elections showed to anyone paying attention no other party than the Republicans & Democrats will ever get the media coverage needed to make a serious run in our politics and that's just how they want it.
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No need for over analysis.  Incumbents win elections most of the time.

 

99% of the voters in the tailgate, yes that means YOU, IF you even bother to vote, which depending on the election might be 1/2 to on a really high end 3/4's of you, always choose 1)  Your party candidate, and 2) the incumbent.

 

http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

 

I might run for office, it's a lifetime sure thing in the house and the senate.  Party!

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We are a global corporate oligarchy.  Which is the natural consequence of capitalism.  But, ya know….Rock The Vote!

The first part is true, the second is a gross over-simplification.     Free markets dont just inevitably end up sprouting corporate oligarchs.  Sounds more like some radical theory of cultural evolution

 

There's no secret government.   That's too simplistic of an analysis, and serves no purpose other than to free oneself from trying to do anything about anything.

 

There is only government by humans, with all of the failings and inefficiencies that necessarily come with it.  Anyone who expects a perfect government needs to look to the past and see that all of the innumerable governments that came before also sucked in innumerable ways.   We need government, all we can do is try to improve the government we have.  

 

Another over-simplification.  There are a lot of things people do not know, and a lot of secrets that are and have been kept.  Many that stand directly in the way of improving the government, not perfecting it.    Its not all just part of the same imperfect system.

 

I use to jump into this stuff all the time and try to break down whats wrong and why are people not seeing it and blah blah. A few months ago I came to the conclusion that no one really cares enough to do anything about it so thats that.

 

I have heard a lot of people talk like this, sounds a lot like a self fulfilling prophecy.  The second you stop caring, you prove it true. 

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I don't think there is a secret shadow government conspiring to rule the world. I'm not too big on simplistic notions about Bilderbergers, Illuminati, masons, etc.

However I do think there is a group of extremely wealthy people with common interests who have way too much power, perhaps to the point that our current political system is more plutocratic than democratic.

The big money interests don't need a conspiracy to rule the world, they all have the same agenda to begin with (profit), and they already have the means to advance that agenda (money). Unfortunately this situation undermines the well-being and will of the people.

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I know I have to speak in exacts for you, you struggle with reading anything other than an official opinion from a supreme court justice.

I know when I point out that one of your bombastic claims cannot possibly be true, you attack me for pointing it out.

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I know when I point out that one of your bombastic claims cannot possibly be true, you attack me for pointing it out.

 

I posted a link and made a facetious comment at the end.  Your ability to interact with humans is very Spock like.  Almost amusing that you always attempt to stalk me and call me out.  Shoo Shoo.

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