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CHALK TALK - Power Running Scheme vs Zone Running Scheme: The Ballad of Why 46 Is REALLY Struggling


DC9

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Okay... it's been a while since we've had one of these and I think in a season as un-motivating as this one, we should at least take the time to educate ourselves. 

 

With the change in coaching regime comes a tweak in the approach on the field.  Sure it's all "just football" but some tweaks are easier to notice than others.  And some tweaks, while more subtle to the untrained eye, leave us scratching our heads.

 

When Jay Gruden came to Washington, he wanted to bring with him, his power running scheme that he ran while he was with the Bengals.   We "beefed" up on the o-line in terms of the weigh of our linemen if nothing else, but it brings some challenges and takes a while to get going. 

 

I'll try to illustrate my take below, if Coach or DG or anyone else has any tweaks for me, just let me know in the thread and I'll make some changes (maybe :P ).

 

*The long and the short of it... MOST power blocking plays are ISO blocks (or isolation -- meaning one on one).  And MOST power blocking plays are designed to go to a specific gap or hole.

 

see below:

 

holes-22.png

 

There they are... the numbers.  The plays in the power schemes TYPICALLY are designed to go into one of those numbers.  What you'll also see MOST of the time, is a pulling guard (annotated as "G" above).  So, by "pulling", I mean at the snap they will come out of their stance and run down the line and into the gap where the play is designed to go.

 

see below:

 

Power_Blocking_with_Wing.jpg

 

Ah... there it is, a nice 24 Iso Load, or "Power O" run for you Madden Players.  The Left Guard pulls and goes around the center and the right guard and into the "b gap" or "4 hole".  The running back follows him right into that hole and the ENTIRE line and supporting cast on this play has determined that THIS will be the hole you go into.

 

An example of "iso blocking" that is also part of power running is below... the ole 22 ISO or "Dive" play for you Madden Lovers out there.

 

iso4-e1362588964661.png

 

Now, some of you may have noticed that MORE and MORE of our play action passes have come out of straight drop backs and less boot action... and some of you haven't and that's okay, that's why I felt the nudge to do this thread. 

 

But we can get to that in the next lesson... this lesson we will be focusing on HOW IS THIS BLOCKING SCHEME HURTING ALFRED MORRIS.

 

Let's continue on down the road.  Morris has rushed for 3,000 plus yards in his first two plus years as a Redskin.  Prolific.  Awesome.  And totally maximizing what he does well.

 

Morris is not a "power runner" in the traditional sense.  He is a "powerful runner" but he isn't a power runner.  To me, the difference is his ball security, his violence to the hole, and his speed.

 

Morris was Tailor Made for the ZBS... he's slower and has excellent vision.  So, while that may hinder him in the power game, it does great things in the ZBS. 

 

Being slower to the hole allows the linemen to get the defense moving in one direction about a step and a half quicker than it would if Morris wasn't a 4.6 - 4.7  running back.  So by the time Morris sees where he wants to go, he could typically run right into the hole.

 

That gets me to 46's second and most valuable asset... his vision.  Vision is crucial for a RB running in the ZBS.  Each play the RB will have 3 choices instead of one hole.

 

see below

 

Play7.jpg

 

Notice... the RB can either try to get around the blocking and to the corner, press the edge and follow the tackle or tight end to get as many yards as possible, OR he can take the cutback lane... which opens up eventually for RBs who know how to set things up later in the game, which Morris became very good at over the last two years.

 

 

So... in summary... the Power Blocking Scheme is awesome.  But you have to have the right RB for it.  It's also giving our o-line fits cause it takes TIME TO GET IT RIGHT.  But It also takes away Morris' vision and forces him to make quicker decisions and be more violent to the hole... which he is obviously not comfortable with. 

 

Again, if any of the coaches out there have beef... let me know and I'll make the change :D

 

HTTR!

 

 

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Thanks for the thread. So, at the expense of sounding like a complete idiot, the ZBS that Morris excels at is basically when he's given the option to pick which of 3 holes he has a better chance of making it through/getting more yards etc?

Do you think the reason he does better in this type of run game is because if one of the gaps/holes aren't there (when you were describing the iso and dive blocks he's screwed), but he still has 2 more opportunities in the other scheme ( makes sense if our oline can't block for crap)?

I guess i just wanna make sure i get this right.

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So if Morris isn't the back for this scheme, and presuming the scheme won't change.  DO we have a back on the Roster who is a fit (and maybe trade Almo for a pick?)

 

I wouldn't say Morris isn't THAT guy just yet.  He's learning just like the rest of the team is (**looks over at offensive line**) but he's not done himself any favors.  He's got to be able to run both of these.

 

You see the difference in how Clinton Portis handled this change versus how Alfred Morris has handled this change.  When CP came from the Broncos, who obviously ran the ZBS, and came down where Gibbs ran a Power scheme, he didn't always take the hole.  But his athletic superiority allowed him to make some excellent plays.

 

It's the difference between a 2nd round RB and a 6th round RB unfortunately.

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So if Morris isn't the back for this scheme, and presuming the scheme won't change.  DO we have a back on the Roster who is a fit (and maybe trade Almo for a pick?)

 

why can't the scheme change?  it seems like that is an easier solution than scrapping Morris.

 

for that matter, why do we have to keep implementing schemes that don't fit our personnell???  the offense is allegedly a bad fit for the starting quarterback we traded the universe for, the 3-4 defense was a bad fit for our linebackers and linemen, and now our running scheme is a bad fit for our star running back??   wtf?

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And wouldn't it still be the blame of our oline as opposed to Morris if they can't block ONE guy? I'm asking because it seems like the power scheme you're saying he's having trouble with would actually be easier for the line to hold their blocks. But again, i really don't know crap when it comes to this stuff.

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Thanks for the thread. So, at the expense of sounding like a complete idiot, the ZBS that Morris excels at is basically when he's given the option to pick which of 3 holes he has a better chance of making it through/getting more yards etc?

 

 

I'd say if you couple that with his lack of speed and power to that hole, yes.  He didn't always hit the HR in that ZBS, but he knew how to work it like a champ.  He's much more suited for it.

 

Arian Foster is a great example of this type of back.  Foster runs a 4.7 40 and was also a late round pick or undrafted, but he struggles when Houston try to run these plays as well.

 

On the flip side, Steve Slaton was TOO fast and lacked the vision to run zone. 

 

So you have to be the perfect balance.

 

Do you think the reason he does better in this type of run game is because if one of the gaps/holes aren't there (when you were describing the iso and dive blocks he's screwed), but he still has 2 more opportunities in the other scheme ( makes sense if our oline can't block for crap)?

 

 

Pretty Much.  There are cutback lanes to the power plays, too.  But he's going to have to learn where they are.  They aren't "natural" cutback lanes like you have in stretch plays where the whole defense and offensive lines are flowing one way.  They also open and close faster.

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why can't the scheme change?  it seems like that is an easier solution than scrapping Morris.

 

for that matter, why do we have to keep implementing schemes that don't fit our personnell???  the offense is allegedly a bad fit for the starting quarterback we traded the universe for, the 3-4 defense was a bad fit for our linebackers and linemen, and now our running scheme is a bad fit for our star running back??   wtf?

Now this post i totally agree with. Why not use our guys to their strengths instead of changing everything up?

I'd say if you couple that with his lack of speed and power to that hole, yes.  He didn't always hit the HR in that ZBS, but he knew how to work it like a champ.  He's much more suited for it.

 

Arian Foster is a great example of this type of back.  Foster runs a 4.7 40 and was also a late round pick or undrafted, but he struggles when Houston try to run these plays as well.

 

On the flip side, Steve Slaton was TOO fast and lacked the vision to run zone. 

 

So you have to be the perfect balance.

 

 

Pretty Much.  There are cutback lanes to the power plays, too.  But he's going to have to learn where they are.  They aren't "natural" cutback lanes like you have in stretch plays where the whole defense and offensive lines are flowing one way.  They also open and close faster.

Ok. See i always thought Morris was a very powerful runner. Works his ass off and hard to take down. Im assuming speed is the biggest issue with him?

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why can't the scheme change?  it seems like that is an easier solution than scrapping Morris.

 

This gets into the next chalk talk I want to do in a couple of weeks.  But the big reason is that the Gruden passing tree is different than Shannys.

 

The progression in the Shanny play action passing game was deep to shallow.  So on the boot the QB would be reading levels in the defense. 

 

The progression in this offense is more from the pocket/middle of the field so it's more reading actual coverage. 

 

Both work and both are used by other teams.

 

But I'll get more into that in a couple of weeks.

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OK.  Boneheaded question here.  I thought most of the running plays that Gruden was calling were still the stretch zone running plays?  The announcers in the last game seemed to be putting some of the blame for lack of production on poor TE blocking on the perimeter and new WRs that don't excel in blocking.

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This is an interesting post, thanks.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I have seen plenty of zone blocking runs this year with Morris.  Matter of fact, Gruden didn't even change the terminology and scheme of the running game this year - which is pretty rare for a new coach and a new playbook.

 

Also, Arian Foster is on pace for 1300+ yards and 11+ touchdowns.  Hardly a down year with a new scheme.

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Love this thread and its what I've been thinking regarding Morris all season (though I do think the lack of Griffin as a potential run threat does contribute to it a bit).

 

My personal preference, without question, would for us to go to more ZBS runs as opposed to Power. I don't see a significant benefit to going power and 4 of our 5 lineman were showing last year they were perfectly capable of blocking in a ZBS scheme. I think it maximizes Alfred's talents and makes him a legit top 5 to top 10 back in the league.

 

HOWEVER....

 

If Jay Gruden is going to do what so many people RIPPED Shanahan for....IE "My SYSTEM trumps what fits my players"....and decides to stick to Power then we need to look at other options. It kills me to say that because Alfred is EVERYTHING you want as a player on your team. A guy who can be a pro-bowl/all pro caliber guy whose humble and a good teammate. But he doesn't have the athletic ability to transition well into a Power blocking scheme running back that's on the same level as he was in the Zone blocking scheme.

 

If Jay is stubborning sticking with doing it HIS way in the running game then we need to start looking for trade partners. Alfred has another VERY cheap year on his contract and is coming off two stellar seasons so I have to imagine SOMEONE would possibly give up picks. It's extremely too bad that Forsett and Taliaferro seem to be promising up in Baltimore, because with their new OC he'd probably have looked very nicely there. If Tate goes down with another injury this season, making people question his longevity, then perhaps you look up towards Cleveland.

 

As I said, my overwhelming preference would be to focus more on the ZBS and get Alfred back into what his talents best are suited for. But if we're not going to do that, as much as I love the guy, I'd rather not try and pound a square peg into a round hole. It worked with Portis only because of the physical gifts he possessed...Alfred just doesn't have that.

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Brandymac...

 

I think your comment goes to something DC9 said in his first post.

There are "powerful" runners, and then there are runners who work well in a POWER scheme.

 

The two are different things.

 

Alfred is "powerful" in the sense that he's generally hard to take down, can lower the shoulder and plow someone, and when in a (relatively) clean situation can fight through arm tackles.

 

However, being powerful in and of itself doesn't necessarily make you well suited for an actual Power running game. His excellent vision mixed with the ZBS scheme basically gave him a good chance of taking the "cleanest" route past the line of scrimmage which helped to maximize his "powerful" running style in terms of shedding blocks. Because the hole is cleaner, and because as DC9 pointed out the defense is generally flowing a bit too fast past where he's going, he was more apt to get met with an arm tackle or two.

 

In this system he doesn't have the speed or experience to get the cutback lanes as well, which means he's going for that one hole come hell or high water. And often times that hole is far less "clean" of people than the lanes he'd have found the past two years. More people there to possibly hinder his advancement, more chances for clean hits on him as opposed to out of position arm tackles, less chances for the type of "powerful" running he does to have a significant impact.

 

That's how I understand it, but I'm sure DC9 can correect me if I'm way off base there :)

 

 

Also, Arian Foster is on pace for 1300+ yards and 11+ touchdowns.  Hardly a down year with a new scheme.

 

I'm not positive, but I believe the Texans are still running a Zone scheme in the running game.

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Arian Foster is a great example of this type of back.  Foster runs a 4.7 40 and was also a late round pick or undrafted, but he struggles when Houston try to run these plays as well.

Also, Arian Foster is on pace for 1300+ yards and 11+ touchdowns.  Hardly a down year with a new scheme.

 

I'm not positive, but I believe the Texans are still running a Zone scheme in the running game.

 

My post was directed at DC9's comment on Foster struggling in Bill O Brien's traditional power run scheme.  And yes, he has incorporated a lot of zone-blocking plays into his offense this year.

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Z,

Ok. Thank you very much for that explanation. Now i get it, and it makes sense. I'm still like greenspandan in that i don't know why jay would change something that was a bright spot on the team. Like you said, the line was sufficient at blocking for him, and he was doing well. DC9 said that has something to do with the passing game, so i guess I'll have to wait for that thread to understand lol. Thanks again :)

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Now Ok. See i always thought Morris was a very powerful runner. Works his ass off and hard to take down. Im assuming speed is the biggest issue with him?

 

He is a powerful runner in that he breaks a ton of tackles and is hard to bring down.  But in this scheme he's not had the ability to get his body going.

 

The scheme calls for you to run straight to the hole where the blockers are going, if the hole isn't there he isn't going to get that force going forward enough to where he can break tackles.  If the hole is there and he doesn't hit it violently then he's going to have a tough go.

 

Another way to look at it, in the ZBS the defense flows with the line.  In this scheme the runs are more straight and the defenders are broken down and more prepared to tackle if they fill the hole.

OK.  Boneheaded question here.  I thought most of the running plays that Gruden was calling were still the stretch zone running plays?  The announcers in the last game seemed to be putting some of the blame for lack of production on poor TE blocking on the perimeter and new WRs that don't excel in blocking.

 

He still calls stretch plays, but it's not the bread and butter.

 

The most frequent calls have been inside zone and power plays.

This is an interesting post, thanks.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I have seen plenty of zone blocking runs this year with Morris.  Matter of fact, Gruden didn't even change the terminology and scheme of the running game this year - which is pretty rare for a new coach and a new playbook.

 

Also, Arian Foster is on pace for 1300+ yards and 11+ touchdowns.  Hardly a down year with a new scheme.

 

They are still running more zone than not.

 

My post was directed at DC9's comment on Foster struggling in Bill O Brien's traditional power run scheme.  And yes, he has incorporated a lot of zone-blocking plays into his offense this year.

 

The Texans are running more zone.

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My post was directed at DC9's comment on Foster struggling in Bill O Brien's traditional power run scheme.  And yes, he has incorporated a lot of zone-blocking plays into his offense this year.

 

Ah. I don't think DC9's comment was suggesting Foster is strugging in general currently or that O'Brien is running a more traditional power scheme.

 

I think what he was saying is that...in general, since Foster's been in the league...he's been more successful in ZBS runs than the times when he's been called upon to run a Power style play.

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Wow. Just seems, using logic, you wouldn't try to force a RB into a hole that's basically got guys there just waiting to take you down. I think I'd take the easy way out as a coach and use the scheme that offers more opportunities for bigger gains/success,

 

Well, to be fair to the Power Scheme...and again hopefully one of the better football minds like DC9 can probably come in and verify or correct what I'm going to say...

 

It's somewhat dependent on the style of O-Line you have and the style of running back you have.

 

If you have some big, physical, monster type O-Lineman that are very good at anchoring down on their blocks and opening those holes then the Power Scheme can be very effective. Everyone on the team knows where the play is going and how they need to be blocking with a lot fewer variables in it. And if you have a back with exceptional burst, with the ability to get up to speed and get their power going quickly, it can be very effective. It's a wonderful system if your O-lineman aren't the most athletic of folks or if field vision isn't one of the better traits your RB has.

 

If you have some lighter but quicker, more athletic and agile O-Lineman that are good at pulling and getting out moving laterally then the ZBS can be very effective. As you say, you're setting up a lot of options for your RB to possibly take, which if you have the right running back gives them a higher probability of finding some daylight. However, those extra variables on the backside makes it so that there's a little less certainty on offense of where exactly the play is going to be going and how you're going to be impacting it. You also need a different kind of runner. While you still need a good burst off the cut, you have a little extra time to "get yourself going" so to speak to generate that acceleration and power. In this scheme vision is a much greater asset because you need to be able to make good decisions on where to go as a RB.

 

You generally are hoping to find a RB with something elite about them. Elite top end speed, elite acceleration, elite power, elite escapability, elite vision. I'd argue that often vision is one that is more of an after thought because there's no clear cut physical "test" for it like there is for many of the others OR its not as readily apparent on screen (where as someone like Barry Sanders or McCoys escapability is).

 

Alfred, arguably, has elite vision for a running back. The problem is that is probably the only elite skill he has, and its probably the least important of all of them in a traditional Power scheme.

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Ah. I don't think DC9's comment was suggesting Foster is strugging in general currently or that O'Brien is running a more traditional power scheme.

 

I think what he was saying is that...in general, since Foster's been in the league...he's been more successful in ZBS runs than the times when he's been called upon to run a Power style play.

 

Looking back, you are right!  That is my bad.

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Wow. Just seems, using logic, you wouldn't try to force a RB into a hole that's basically got guys there just waiting to take you down. I think I'd take the easy way out as a coach and use the scheme that offers more opportunities for bigger gains/success,

 

I agree.  The only thing that would stop me from running zone is if we were absolutely racking up the yards on the PA power passes... which are more down the field vertical routes than the west coast type routes that the bootlegs, but we're not really.

 

Now, once the linemen get in synch and the hit those holes with speed and start blocking at the second level... you'll see some results.

 

So it's NOT just Morris.  Don't let me say that it is.  But it's the REASON he isn't racking up yards like last year.  Basically it's the killer combo.

Z,

Thanks again. You have a way of dumbing stuff down for me so i understand it. Makes sense, and your response basically answered the other question i had about the benefits of the power scheme. Thanks again!

 

I think he "smarts it up" :lol:

 

Good show, Z!!

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