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CNN.com: Ted Cruz: How U.S. can stop ISIS


PeterMP

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http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/opinion/ted-cruz-how-us-can-stop-isis/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

 

"Second, Congress should make fighting for or supporting ISIS an affirmative renunciation of American citizenship. Numerous Americans have joined ISIS along with hundreds of others from the European Union."

 

I have a couple issues with the whole piece, but at least initially, I'm curious if any of our resident lawyers know if there is any way this could be considered Constitutional.

 

We can revoke people's citizenship for their affiliation with certain groups?

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Ted Cruz is the last person on earth you would ask how to stop ISIS. He's the Joseph McCarthy of our times. Only Ted hasn't found his issue yet.. God help us all when he does though.

We are talking about what, 12 people who were living overseas anyway?

To beat ISIS I suggest we shove hellfire missiles up their ass, repeatedly until they get the hint

 

You are talking about hundreds of American citizens currently fighting in the ME for ISIS...  hundreds of Australians,  Thousands of Europeans. Least those are the numbers kicking around in the press.

 

No Ted Cruz's idea is not constitutional,  coarse it will take the supreme court ten years to come around to that decision.  No worries though if Ted Cruz and Michele Bachmann are it's chief supporters it's unlikely to get many more votes certainly not a majority, much less the super majority it will take to pass. Cruz is most effective when stopping other peoples ideas, like funding the government and fixing our boarders. Here we have stupid paired with unscrupulous; and almost everybody knows it,  although sometimes they question who's who.

 

Ted Cruz wants to be President,   Bachmann wants to be important.   Most people even in their own party just want them to go away.

 

Cruz's shtick is even wearing thin with the evangelicals.

 

 

Ted Cruz Booed Off Stage At Middle East Christian Conference

 

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/10/ted-cruz-booed-off-stage-at-middle-east-christian-conference-video/

 

Cruz is a political hack, born without a sincere bone in his body.

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You are talking about hundreds of American citizens currently fighting in the ME for ISIS.

 

I don't know about the other numbers you put, but this certainly isn't true based on our current information

 

"But the Pentagon soon corrected Hagel's comment, saying the 100 count is the total number of Americans fighting for any of the various groups fighting in Syria, some of which are more militant than others -- and some of which are even allied with the U.S. Indeed, Matthew Olsen, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center -- the government office tasked with assessing terrorist threats -- also confirmed that 100 is the total count of the various Americans fighting in Syria and not a count of those fighting for ISIS."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/05/opinion/bergen-sterman-isis-threat-hype/

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I don't know about the other numbers you put, but this certainly isn't true based on our current information

 

"But the Pentagon soon corrected Hagel's comment, saying the 100 count is the total number of Americans fighting for any of the various groups fighting in Syria, some of which are more militant than others -- and some of which are even allied with the U.S. Indeed, Matthew Olsen, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center -- the government office tasked with assessing terrorist threats -- also confirmed that 100 is the total count of the various Americans fighting in Syria and not a count of those fighting for ISIS."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/05/opinion/bergen-sterman-isis-threat-hype/

Looks like your quote is newer than mine... I've heard Eric holder and the CIA both use the 100+ number..

but that might be weeks old and not as current as your info.

 

8/28

Attorney General Eric Holder estimated this summer that there are 7,000 foreign fighters in the war-ravaged Middle Eastern nation.

More than 100 Americans are among those who have tried to join various militant groups in Syria, U.S. officials say. While some are aligned with ISIS, the fighters shift allegiance and it's difficult to pin down a specific number, officials say.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/world/meast/syria-american-killed/

National Counter Terrorism Center (NCTC) director Matthew Olsen, said the official estimates for how many Americans had fought with jihadists in Syria were likely a baseline and not a mean. In July, Olsen told the Aspen Institute that the U.S. intelligence community estimated there were just over 100 American citizens who had gone to fight in Syria with extremist groups. “And of course, now we’re talking numbers that are very rough and may well be conservative,” he said. “Because these are some degree of identification we’ve made of these individuals so the number is actually likely to be higher than that.”

In an appearance on Meet the Press this weekend, Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said that hundreds of Americans were affiliated with the group.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/05/how-many-americans-in-isis-no-one-knows.html

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Hey Ted, I bet your idea includes cutting taxes too. Not that cutting taxes is a bad thing, it's just that you need to get a couple other things to say already.

 

Personally, I'm all for having "missile buckets" out in front of malls through Christmas, so we can personally fund this the old fashioned way. Maybe even sponsor a missile, like how you can sponsor a kid in some far off country. You get to see where your missile goes, what it actually does, how effective it is, etc.

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Why the hell can't we declare war and in doing so state that all members of ISIS are to be killed or captured until the time an unconditional surrender is reached? Seriously why must we pretend to want peace with these monsters? I don't give a damn what country they came from. They left and joined a conquering army and supported the carrying out, not talking about but the actual action, of genocide. They should be offered no peace, no agreements, only the choice between a grave and a jail cell.

They are no better than the nazi or the empire of japan. They're just less well funded. Treat them the same way, crush them entirely and accept nothing less than unconditional surrender. What they have done is beyond forgiveness and making peace with them would be a terrible injustice.

I'm betting this would do more to stop ISIS than revoking citizenship after fighting the Supreme Court for a decade in order to maybe have the power to actually make good on the threat.

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ISIS is an awful awful group and the leadership and those responsible for all these atrocities need to be taken out...but we should keep in mind that lots of people join ISIS or work with them for different reasons, sometimes because they themselves are kidnapped or brainwashed or forced to choose between their family being killed or raped or joining ISIS.  

 

In other cases there have been people who have joined ISIS assuming they are fighting a good fight against tyranny or oppression (though less so now a days after so much of their recent actions have been publicized) and later realizing that they are doing exactly what they're supposed to be fighting.  Some of them have tried to leave and succeeded, some are probably still looking for a way out, and some are most likely dead for being 'apostates' or 'traitors'.  

 

This isn't to say that we should go easy on ISIS. They have to be wiped out as an organization and their leadership must be eliminated.  

But ISIS and their local support structures are made up of many different people with varied goals and ideas and weaknesses.

While we should do everything in our power to make joining ISIS a very unwise and unhealthy decision, we need to be on the lookout for weak links and disagreements inside ISIS and it's support..

And show and encourage people who may not be sold on the ideology or their methods that there are other avenues to pursue.  

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Why the hell can't we declare war and in doing so state that all members of ISIS are to be killed or captured until the time an unconditional surrender is reached? Seriously why must we pretend to want peace with these monsters? I don't give a damn what country they came from. They left and joined a conquering army and supported the carrying out, not talking about but the actual action, of genocide. They should be offered no peace, no agreements, only the choice between a grave and a jail cell.

They are no better than the nazi or the empire of japan. They're just less well funded. Treat them the same way, crush them entirely and accept nothing less than unconditional surrender. What they have done is beyond forgiveness and making peace with them would be a terrible injustice.

I'm betting this would do more to stop ISIS than revoking citizenship after fighting the Supreme Court for a decade in order to maybe have the power to actually make good on the threat.

 

Dude, ****in'a.  

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ISIS is an awful awful group and the leadership and those responsible for all these atrocities need to be taken out...but we should keep in mind that lots of people join ISIS or work with them for different reasons, sometimes because they themselves are kidnapped or brainwashed or forced to choose between their family being killed or raped or joining ISIS.  

 

In other cases there have been people who have joined ISIS assuming they are fighting a good fight against tyranny or oppression (though less so now a days after so much of their recent actions have been publicized) and later realizing that they are doing exactly what they're supposed to be fighting.  Some of them have tried to leave and succeeded, some are probably still looking for a way out, and some are most likely dead for being 'apostates' or 'traitors'.  

 

This isn't to say that we should go easy on ISIS. They have to be wiped out as an organization and their leadership must be eliminated.  

But ISIS and their local support structures are made up of many different people with varied goals and ideas and weaknesses.

While we should do everything in our power to make joining ISIS a very unwise and unhealthy decision, we need to be on the lookout for weak links and disagreements inside ISIS and it's support..

And show and encourage people who may not be sold on the ideology or their methods that there are other avenues to pursue.  

 

Ah so we should forgive the people literally chopping the heads off of children, nailing fathers to crosses, and raping the women before holding their slit throat over a basin and cheering as the blood is drained out of them?  All because people join ISIS for different reasons and maybe they could have thought people that do that had, you know, good reasons and ****.  

 

NO.  In fact **** NO.  Anyone that goes and become part of that **** deserves prison or death so the rest of the world understands that while peace may not be possible there is a big red line you do not cross.  Doing so means contempt, prison, or death unless you are one of the lucky ****s that somehow survives the war long enough to see unconditional surrender and you just aren't deemed important enough for the world courts to charge individually. 

 

People have lost their families in the worst imaginable ways and they deserve better than to be told that they have to make nice with the monsters and content themselves to knowing some leaders who may or may not have been there have been held responsible. 

 

They joined the wrong damn group and they deserve all the hell their choice brings down on their heads.  Every last ****ing one of them. 

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Ah so we should forgive the people literally chopping the heads off of children, nailing fathers to crosses, and raping the women before holding their slit throat over a basin and cheering as the blood is drained out of them?  All because people join ISIS for different reasons and maybe they could have thought people that do that had, you know, good reasons and ****.  

 

NO.  In fact **** NO.  Anyone that goes and become part of that **** deserves prison or death so the rest of the world understands that while peace may not be possible there is a big red line you do not cross.  Doing so means contempt, prison, or death unless you are one of the lucky ****s that somehow survives the war long enough to see unconditional surrender and you just aren't deemed important enough for the world courts to charge individually. 

 

People have lost their families in the worst imaginable ways and they deserve better than to be told that they have to make nice with the monsters and content themselves to knowing some leaders who may or may not have been there have been held responsible. 

 

They joined the wrong damn group and they deserve all the hell their choice brings down on their heads.  Every last ****ing one of them. 

ISIS is a terrible dangerous group that needs to be eliminated, but they don't have a monopoly on mass murder, rape, child killing, etc.  

Are you suggesting we should treat people that were kidnapped or forced to become members or wives the same as those calling the shots or bragging about chopping off heads left and right?

I think we at least need to be mindful about the sort of message that sends.

 

 

A couple of situations to consider:

 

http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2014/9/kurdsiniraq264.htm

The story of an escape: 14-year-old Yazidi Kurdish girl given as a gift to an IS commander 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/middleeast/waging-a-desperate-fight-an-iraqi-town-holds-off-militants.html?_r=0

As they surveyed the area afterward, Mr. Barash encountered several bodies of ISIS fighters that the militants had not claimed. Standing over one, Mr. Barash heard a phone ring from inside the insurgent’s pocket. He grabbed the phone and spoke: “Come and take your body.”

 

But an old man answered, weeping. He told Mr. Barash that ISIS had taken his son from him when they swept through his village. The militants had given him a choice: He could give them his daughter or one of his sons.

 

Crying on the phone, the old man said his son was a teenager, not even old enough for facial hair, and never learned how to fight.

 

“I told him I was sorry,” Mr. Barash said.

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I don't care if they have a monopoly on anything.  If we went around playing the moral equivalency game than every nation and military group is exactly as evil as the next.  We should all simply watch attrocities happen because we are also super terrible, so who are we to say anything about any other group?  I'm Catholic, so I get the whole guilt thing.  I really do.  I felt guilty for a month about hitting a fox with my car.  It didn't die.  It didn't even get seriously injured as far as I could tell.  It just looked at me like it wanted to exceed it's own limitations and learn a human language just soit could cuss me out for not watching where I was going.  At least that was my interpretation of the look it gave me before it ran off into the woods.  I get it.  I'm bad, you're bad, we're all sitting in a pool of bad and sinking ever deeper.  

 

The problem is that sometimes a group sticks it's head up that's too dark for the rest of this black hearted world to ignore.  When that happens, and when the reason isn't instability but sheer brutality and ongoing genocide?  The reaction has to be different then what would happen if two nations decided to skirmish over where to draw lines on a map.  Or even when a country like Russia decides to troll the entire world by invading Ukraine while smiling and saying "who us?  Noooo." everytime they are confronted with new evidence that it indeed, obviously, them.  

 

ISIS is that kind of group.  Yes they are forcing some people to fight and yes they are taking slaves but that is precisely why they have to be crushed.  You can't look at a battlefield and pick out the good ones amongst an invading army of blood thirsty savages.  That kinds of thing needs to be sorted out once the whole unconditional surrender thing happens.  Some of those victims however will have entirely too much blood on their hands to be forgiven.  Regardless of the reasoning some crimes are just too bloody and horrible to be forgiven by saying "they made me do it".  They have the option to die, and as cold as it may be to say this, that option is shiny and bright compared to some of the **** ISIS is doing.  

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The problem is that sometimes a group sticks it's head up that's too dark for the rest of this black hearted world to ignore.  When that happens, and when the reason isn't instability but sheer brutality and ongoing genocide? 

 

Should we be treating Boko Haram the same way?

 

I missed the speech where the Canadian PM outlined their efforts to destroy the ISIS

 

China?

 

Putin in Russia?

 

India?

 

Anybody in sub-Sarah Africa?

 

S. America?

 

Most of the rest of this "black hearted world"?

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What do you do if you revoke someone's American citizenship? Where do they go? Texas?

 

 

Not if ya revoke it with a bullet/missile.

 

 

Ted Cr

 

Cruz's shtick is even wearing thin with the evangelicals.

 

 

 

Cruz is

 

The Assad nuthuggers are evangelicals?  :blink:

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Already did that.

In fact, I could see some shyster arguing that the existing declaration applies to ISIS, because they were associated with al Qaeda.

 

the AUMF is certainly broad enough to include them and has already been used for other than AQ ....but it is nice to see ya describe Holder as a shyster  B)

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