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DC Ban on carrying handguns struck down


Slateman

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http://m.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/federal-judge-overturns-dc-handgun-ban/2014/07/26/906bc366-1534-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html

Chief Lanier has ordered police to not arrest anyone carrying a firearm who is legally allowed to do so in DC or any state. AWB and magazine limits still apply. Can't imagine this staying like this for very long, but interesting non-the-less.

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It's been awhile since I lived in the area but I can see some "jurisdictional issues" that may arise.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Park Service presides over the mall area, while DC Metro has the city. ( Not sure who would have the Treasury, Commerce, HUD and other buildings)

 

Law enforcement divisions will have to figure this one out as I can easily see this might cause some confusion.

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Per Emily Miller with Fox 5 DC:

"More -- DC police chief Lanier, using guidance from AG -- grants full reciprocity for all open and concealed carry from others states."

"Per DC Police Chief Lanier, the only gun arrests allowed now are DC residents with unregistered guns and non-residents who are prohibited under federal laws from possessing firearms. Everyone else is in the clear."

Wow. The only thing I can think is that the DC police are really afraid of lawsuits

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Damn, not many states (hell...are there any?) that recognize ALL other states CCW permits.  But then again with DC being its own stand alone city, I dunno if that makes any difference.

 

Regardless of how/why it happened, good for the people of Washington.  There's a lot of weird people out there.  Arm yourselves!  :)

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Not seeing a lot of details on the actual case(s) and ruling, in the OP. 

 

But I get the impression that what DC had was a law that simply forbade anybody from carrying a pistol, for any reason, outside their home. 

 

And yeah, I can certainly see how that would be unconstitutional.  (At least under our current interpretations of the 2nd.  Which, I observe, appear to be considerably broader than they used to be, some time ago.) 

 

(Rather curious, the way some of our constitutional rights seem to be growing, over time, while others appear to be shrinking to virtual nonexistence.) 

 

----------

 

Now, this claim that they've decided to suddenly go from not permitting carry of any kind, to well, anybody who doesn't live here is allowed to bring whatever they want?  I'm having trouble believing that they've decided to shift their policies that much. 



----------

Damn, not many states (hell...are there any?) that recognize ALL other states CCW permits.  But then again with DC being its own stand alone city, I dunno if that makes any difference.


If I'm reading the claims, in this thread, correctly, they're supposedly doing more than that. The way at least one poster is phrasing things, people from, say, Virginia, are allowed to bring pistols into DC, whether they have a permit in Virgina or not.

(I'm having trouble believing that.)
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Damn, not many states (hell...are there any?) that recognize ALL other states CCW permits.  But then again with DC being its own stand alone city, I dunno if that makes any difference.

 

Regardless of how/why it happened, good for the people of Washington.  There's a lot of weird people out there.  Arm yourselves!  :)

Yeah! Now if you come across a "weird" person, you can shoot them!

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Yeah! Now if you come across a "weird" person, you can shoot them!

 

"So what if I chased him on foot for over two blocks and cornered him.  He punched me in the face and I felt my life was in danger!"

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Not seeing a lot of details on the actual case(s) and ruling, in the OP. 

 

But I get the impression that what DC had was a law that simply forbade anybody from carrying a pistol, for any reason, outside their home. 

 

And yeah, I can certainly see how that would be unconstitutional.  (At least under our current interpretations of the 2nd.  Which, I observe, appear to be considerably broader than they used to be, some time ago.) 

 

(Rather curious, the way some of our constitutional rights seem to be growing, over time, while others appear to be shrinking to virtual nonexistence.) 

 

----------

 

Now, this claim that they've decided to suddenly go from not permitting carry of any kind, to well, anybody who doesn't live here is allowed to bring whatever they want?  I'm having trouble believing that they've decided to shift their policies that much. 

----------

If I'm reading the claims, in this thread, correctly, they're supposedly doing more than that. The way at least one poster is phrasing things, people from, say, Virginia, are allowed to bring pistols into DC, whether they have a permit in Virgina or not.

(I'm having trouble believing that.)

 

 

What the court ruled is the total ban was unconstitutional, they are free to make a new law with restrictions that pass the constitutional tests.

 

the gun ban law simply does not exist 

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"So what if I chased him on foot for over two blocks and cornered him.  He punched me in the face and I felt my life was in danger!"

 

ya can rest easy, the duty to retreat is still in effect there

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Yeah! Now if you come across a "weird" person, you can shoot them!

I don't understand this logic. Statistics are available that demonstrate the vast majority of registered gun owners never commit a crime involving their gun. Yet now because one can carry legally in DC law abiding gun owners are going to shoot weird people? DC has had a gun ban for years and it never stopped the illegal gun owners from killing people.

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I don't understand this logic. Statistics are available that demonstrate the vast majority of registered gun owners never commit a crime involving their gun. Yet now because one can carry legally in DC law abiding gun owners are going to shoot weird people? DC has had a gun ban for years and it never stopped the illegal gun owners from killing people.

The logic is simple.  For years, gun owners have said that gun owners don't commit many violent crimes, but that their homes are frequently subject to break in and stolen guns from unsecured homes is the largest source of arming those wont to commit robbery, murder, and other illegal/destructive acts.  More, we've seen in recent years... or just this year in over a hundred instances, that mass shooters... even ones with pronounced mental illness where they have been judged to be a danger to themselves and others tend to buy (legaly) large stores of guns.

 

So, is making it simpler and easier to carry a gun likely to make people more responsible or saner or is it more likely that by increasing the numbers more irresponsible and crazy people will wind up armed and in a situation where they are likely to do harm?

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The logic is simple.  For years, gun owners have said that gun owners don't commit many violent crimes, but that their homes are frequently subject to break in and stolen guns from unsecured homes is the largest source of arming those wont to commit robbery, murder, and other illegal/destructive acts.  More, we've seen in recent years... or just this year in over a hundred instances, that mass shooters... even ones with pronounced mental illness where they have been judged to be a danger to themselves and others tend to buy (legaly) large stores of guns.

 

So, is making it simpler and easier to carry a gun likely to make people more responsible or saner or is it more likely that by increasing the numbers more irresponsible and crazy people will wind up armed and in a situation where they are likely to do harm?

 

so you wish to disarm the law abiding in hopes the criminal will have less access instead of focusing on the thieves and insane?

 

 

ask Chicago how that worked

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If we look at how anything is working out... we are failing.  Numbers of mass shootings are up, numbers of suicides are up, numbers of homocides are down, but only if we do a lot of statistical wizardry like excluding urban killing that may be gang related or domestic abuse.  More people die annually in gun related violence in the United States than in countries actively engaged in civil war.

 

Our only strategy over the last five years is increasing access to guns.  That sure has helped hasn't it?  The NRA is ten times more effective at killing Americans than Al Qaeda.

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Number of gun related homicides are down in the last five years, and it's the same in the last twenty. Including suicides, which I really couldn't care less about.

300 million people in this country. 30k die as a result of firearms. 1/10th of 1%. Has anyone every realistically proposed instituting a National speed limit of 25 mph to drastically reduce the number of fatalities on the road?

And which countries BTW?

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The logic is simple.  For years, gun owners have said that gun owners don't commit many violent crimes, but that their homes are frequently subject to break in and stolen guns from unsecured homes is the largest source of arming those wont to commit robbery, murder, and other illegal/destructive acts.  More, we've seen in recent years... or just this year in over a hundred instances, that mass shooters... even ones with pronounced mental illness where they have been judged to be a danger to themselves and others tend to buy (legaly) large stores of guns.

 

So, is making it simpler and easier to carry a gun likely to make people more responsible or saner or is it more likely that by increasing the numbers more irresponsible and crazy people will wind up armed and in a situation where they are likely to do harm?

You seriously want to combat criminal B&E with stolen guns by preventing people from owning guns? Otherwise, what was the point of bringing up stolen guns?

 

And the government provided statistics back up the fact that legal gun owners very rarely commit violent crimes, not statistics generated by gun owners.. 

 

Please demonstrate how mass shootings have increased (please don't use the website that has been refuted by CNN and multiple other news sources).

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Would you believe the number of gun deaths in the U.S. are roughly comparable to those killed in war in Syria and Libya?  I could choose a different conflict where America takes the bragging rights' hands down, but I thought it made sense to offer some of the most violent ones as comparables.  What you are seeing is the American death right by gun is roughly equal to some of the worst war time violence anywhere.  There are a few hot spots that are outright worse, but again, we're comparing a country at peace going about it's every day business and a country engaging inactive war.

 

From a conservative site...

There are roughly 32,000 gun deaths per year in the United States. Of those, around 60% are suicides. About 3% are accidental deaths (less than 1,000). About 34% of deaths (just over 11,000 in both 2010 and 2011) make up the remainder of gun deaths. Sometimes the 32,000 and 11,000 figures are used interchangeably by gun control advocates. Clearly, the 32,000 figure is a far more dramatic number and is often used for impact.

 

http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm

 

 

Syria uprising
Ongoing since March 2011 (2 years)

70,000: The estimated death toll as of mid-February, according to the United Nations Human Rights Center

22,530,746: Syria's estimated population in July 2012, according to the CIA World Factbook

0.311: Approximate percentage of the Syrian population killed so far

(For comparison's sake, 0.311% of the population would be 976,066 people for the United States, 196,077 people for the United Kingdom and 4,177,476 people for China, the world's most populous country.)

3,043: Average number of deaths per month

 

Libyan civil war{C}
February 2011-October 2011 (8 months)

30,000: Estimated death toll, according to Libya's transitional government

6,461,454: Libya's estimated population in 2011, according to the CIA World Factbook

0.464: Approximate percentage of the Libyan population killed during the civil war

3,750: Average number of deaths per month

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Pointing out, Burg, that the US has slightly more people than Syria. So comparing the total number killed in the two countries is kinda funny.

Now, though, flipping things around . . .

Yes, I'm well aware that very few legal gun owners kill people.

I'm also aware that very few non gun owners kill people.

Want to compare the rates at which the two groups kill people?

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Want to compare the rates at which the two groups kill people?

 

Might be better to compare the rate from legal gun owners to illegal gun owners, but then some libertarian/NRA grunt might say that means we need to quit making them illegal owners. 

 

 

I'm certain no progressive would.....now immigrants on the other hand  :rolleyes:

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Pointing out, Burg, that the US has slightly more people than Syria. So comparing the total number killed in the two countries is kinda funny.

Now, though, flipping things around . . .

Yes, I'm well aware that very few legal gun owners kill people.

I'm also aware that very few non gun owners kill people.

Want to compare the rates at which the two groups kill people?

Based on the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8):

 

4081 homicides by means other than a gun

8583 homicide by firearm.

 

Now, do you want to contend that that half of the homicide by firearm were committed by legal gun owners?

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

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60% are suicides. Again, 2666.6 deaths/month by gun. 1599.96 of those are suicide. 

 

 

Pointing out, Burg, that the US has slightly more people than Syria. So comparing the total number killed in the two countries is kinda funny.

Now, though, flipping things around . . .

Yes, I'm well aware that very few legal gun owners kill people.

I'm also aware that very few non gun owners kill people.

Want to compare the rates at which the two groups kill people?

and so, you're saying that the US' peace time death by firearm should be proximate to Syria's wartime deathrate?  Is that the point, I'm supposed to believe.  A war so broad and viscous that five million have fled their country is not a fair comparison to America?  America's death rate should be equal to a smaller country engaged in bitter and violent war?

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Based on the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8):

 

4081 homicides by means other than a gun

8583 homicide by firearm.

 

Now, do you want to contend that that half of the homicide by firearm were committed by legal gun owners?

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

 

Uh, no. 

 

I want to contend that the statistics you threw around have absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. 

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and so, you're saying that the US' peace time death by firearm should be proximate to Syria's wartime deathrate?  Is that the point, I'm supposed to believe.  A war so broad and viscous that five million have fled their country is not a fair comparison to America?  America's death rate should be equal to a smaller country engaged in bitter and violent war?

You're skewing numbers. There is nothing that differentiates gun death vs IED vs bombing for Syria. And your including suicide in the numbers for the US.

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