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Deadspin: First Take Discusses A Woman's Responsibility To Avoid Being Beaten


MattFancy

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Oh boy!

 


It's not about him, then. It's about you, and here's what I mean by that. We keep talking about the guys. We know you have no business putting your hands on a woman. I don't know how many times I got to reiterate that. But as a man who was raised by women, see I know what I'm going to do if somebody touches a female member of my family. I know what I'm going to do, I know what my boys are going to do. I know what, I'm going to have to remind myself that I work for the Worldwide Leader, I'm going to have to get law enforcement officials involved because of what I'm going to be tempted to do. But what I've tried to employ the female members of my family, some of who you all met and talked to and what have you, is that again, and this what, I've done this all my life, let's make sure we don't do anything to provoke wrong actions, because if I come, or somebody else come, whether it's law enforcement officials, your brother or the fellas that you know, if we come after somebody has put their hands on you, it doesn't negate the fact that they already put their hands on you. So let's try to make sure that we can do our part in making sure that that doesn't happen. Now you got some dudes that are just horrible and they're going to do it anyway, and there's never an excuse to put your hands on a woman. But domestic violence or whatever the case may be, with men putting their hands on women, is obviously a very real, real issue in our society. And I think that just talking about what guys shouldn't do, we got to also make sure that you can do your part to do whatever you can do to make, to try to make sure it doesn't happen. We know they're wrong. We know they're criminals. We know they probably deserve to be in jail. In Ray Rice's case, he probably deserves more than a 2-game suspension which we both acknowledged. But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there's real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we've got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don't think that's broached enough, is all I'm saying. No point of blame.

 

More at the link

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Stephen A is one of the biggest fakes on TV. He wants to be a celeb sooooo bad. He loves him some Mayweather (a known woman beater) but then he acts all high and mighty when it comes to domestic abuse.

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I usually have a pretty good grasp of these things.....and, yea, this is probably the thing that finally ends First Take.

 

You think? They've made it out alive from some other stupid comments. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if this show goes away. Does anyone even watch it? I don't know a single person that does.

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There was nothing wrong with what Stephen A said this morning. If you watch the entire clip, he makes it clear that there is no excuse for a man to hit a woman.

 

He then goes on to say that when discussing it with the woman closest to him, he says that they should make sure they aren't doing anything to provoke the situation. He's 100% correct. 

 

There are many times when a woman is attacking a man and ends up being the victim because the man retaliates. By no means does this excuse a man from hitting a woman, but not all men are the same. I'd tell all woman close to me the same thing. They should be cognizant of the situation they are in.

 

There are women when who are innocent victims to domestic violence. But the issue is very complex. To say a woman shouldn't take personal responsibility  for her actions, if she's wrong, is foolish. 

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There was nothing wrong with what Stephen A said this morning. If you watch the entire clip, he makes it clear that there is no excuse for a man to hit a woman.

 

He then goes on to say that when discussing it with the woman closest to him, he says that they should make sure they aren't doing anything to provoke the situation. He's 100% correct. 

 

There are many times when a woman is attacking a man and ends up being the victim because the man retaliates. By no means does this excuse a man from hitting a woman, but not all men are the same. I'd tell all woman close to me the same thing. They should be cognizant of the situation they are in.

 

There are women when who are innocent victims to domestic violence. But the issue is very complex. To say a woman shouldn't take personal responsibility  for her actions, if she's wrong, is foolish. 

 

I'm not buying that at all. Stephen A was just doing what Stephen A does best and that's speaking from both sides of his mouth and covering his bets.

I usually have a pretty good grasp of these things.....and, yea, this is probably the thing that finally ends First Take.

 

It won't.

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I think what he was trying to say is: If you are dating an asshole who is likely to hit you, don't spit in his face, because he is likely to hit you.  Instead, end the relationship.  Common sense from Stephen A.

 

Also, if you hit Stephen A.'s sister, he will call a bunch of his friends up and they will chase you around while he sits on the couch and eats cheese curls.

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I'm not buying that at all. Stephen A was just doing what Stephen A does best and that's speaking from both sides of his mouth and covering his bets.

 

It won't.

 

I'm not one to support Stephen A. I think a lot of what he says is pretty stupid, but I do think he's being unfairly criticized in this instance. People are taking a small portion of what he said and taking it out of context. 

 

Some people are taking it as he's saying a woman deserves to be hit if she provokes the situation. He did not convey that message at all. He was simply saying everyone should be aware of their own actions in these situations. 

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This story is so overblown and annoying

 

Was Ray's lady (now wife) probably drunk and acting a fool?  Yes.  Did Ray, deciding not just to restrain her by holding her arms, over the top with knocking her out cold?  Yes.

 

I'm Sure Ray and his wife both apologized to each other the next morning.  he for knocking her ass out cold, and she for (allegedly) not stopping the drunken assault at him to where he felt he had no choice but to clock her.

 

Yes, I'm stronger than my wife.  Could I "pin her down" in a full adrenaline, drunked attack?  Honestly, I'm not sure I could.  Maybe Ray did what he had to do. 

 

Either way, **** Ray Rice for being a little **** and allowing the situation to escalate to what it did.  and **** Goodell for also being a little ****.  Hell, **** everybody.

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There was nothing wrong with what Stephen A said this morning. If you watch the entire clip, he makes it clear that there is no excuse for a man to hit a woman.

 

He then goes on to say that when discussing it with the woman closest to him, he says that they should make sure they aren't doing anything to provoke the situation. He's 100% correct. 

 

There are many times when a woman is attacking a man and ends up being the victim because the man retaliates. By no means does this excuse a man from hitting a woman, but not all men are the same. I'd tell all woman close to me the same thing. They should be cognizant of the situation they are in.

 

There are women when who are innocent victims to domestic violence. But the issue is very complex. To say a woman shouldn't take personal responsibility  for her actions, if she's wrong, is foolish. 

 

Um, actually that's idiotic.  

 

Woman hitting man is not the same thing as man hitting a woman.  For instance, let's pretend that that's what happened in this case.  Ray Rice has no injury, woman is knocked unconscious.  There is this thing called "false equivalency," and this is it.  The ONLY time a man can hit a woman is at gunpoint, fear of death stuff.  Otherwise, its never ok.

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Um, actually that's idiotic.  

 

Woman hitting man is not the same thing as man hitting a woman.  For instance, let's pretend that that's what happened in this case.  Ray Rice has no injury, woman is knocked unconscious.  There is this thing called "false equivalency," and this is it.  The ONLY time a man can hit a woman is at gunpoint, fear of death stuff.  Otherwise, its never ok.

 

I agree with you. A man should never hit a woman, unless he's in fear of his life. But not every man thinks like we do. There are men out there that hit women. These men should not be excused for their action. That's not what I'm saying. I'm only saying that everyone should be think about the potential consequences of their actions.

 

It's common sense IMO.

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Well here we go. I do not know why I'm surprised this is being defended at this point. 

 

Smith is not wrong in the sense that if you are a woman, it is pragmatic to not provoke men who are clearly insane enough to knock out a woman. This is the sort of "be careful, there are idiots out there" advice he could give to his daughter.

 

That is completely different from getting onto a national stage and essentially victim blaming. He is talking as if he is trying to contribute to solving a problem. But the solution to the problem of men beating women is not for women to watch their mouths, or whatever the **** he's trying to say. It's for men to stop ****ing beating women. 

 

The solution to rape, likewise, is not for women to stop being too attractive. 

 

Even if you look at this in the best possible light it was an incredibly stupid thing for him to say. My girlfriend messaged me immediately essentially asking, "did he really just say that?" I am pretty sure most women are going to have the same (or worse) reaction.

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I agree with you. A man should never hit a woman, unless he's in fear of his life. But not every man thinks like we do. There are men out there that hit women. These men should not be excused for their action. That's not what I'm saying. I'm only saying that everyone should be think about the potential consequences of their actions.

 

It's common sense IMO.

 

"Like serving cold meat loaf. You broads really need to keep your head on a swivel when you do that."

 

This whole conversation is demeaning to both men and women. Stephen A. Smith is saying that women are need to walk through life trying to avoid a never-ending series of triggers. And is similarly saying that men are going to hit women because of certain triggers. It turns everyone into a five year old.

 

Men who hit women tend to hit women because they are men who hit women. For the record, I find it impossible to believe that Ray Rice "just had a bad night." Those were the actions of someone who has done this a lot.

 

Now....where Steven A could have made a point was in the discussion of why women stay with men who do this. But I highly highly doubt that he is the person who should be making that incredibly delicate point.

 

Seriously.....the producer is the person who should be fired. Who says, "Let's have Stephen A. and Skip talk about domestic violence. They will bring nuance and perspective to this delicate and complex issue?"

Well here we go. I do not know why I'm surprised this is being defended at this point. 

 

Smith is not wrong in the sense that if you are a woman, it is pragmatic to not provoke men who are clearly insane enough to knock out a woman. This is the sort of "be careful, there are idiots out there" advice he could give to his daughter.

 

 

Agreed. Every father with a daughter needs to have the "If a man ever hits you, you leave immediately" conversation. I've had that discussion with my 11 year old already. (Not a full-scale "Here are pictures of battered women" discussion but a "your body belongs to you" kind of thing).

 

It's inconceivable to me that I would ever say, "Sweetie....watch what you say around a guy because you might cause him to beat you up."

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I don't see where he's blaming the victim. I can see where he may be suggesting that potential victims take measures to avoid becoming victims, which makes a lot more sense than asking criminals not to be criminals.

If I wish to not be mugged, I can:

a ) Tell muggers not to mug me because mugging is wrong

b ) Not walk down the dark, unlit alleys of DC late at night on my own

Which is more likely to prevent me from becoming a victim?

If you don't want to be a victim, take measures to not become one. If you find out the person you're going out with is violent, don't stay with them.

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I don't see where he's blaming the victim. I can see where he may be suggesting that potential victims take measures to avoid becoming victims, which makes a lot more sense than asking criminals not to be criminals.

If I wish to not be mugged, I can:

a) Tell muggers not to mug me because mugging is wrong

B) Not walk down the dark, unlit alleys of DC late at night on my own

Which is more likely to prevent me from becoming a victim?

If you don't want to be a victim, be take measures to not become one. If you find out the person you're going out with is violent, don't stay with them.

 

That's not what he said. At all.

 

He didn't say, "Avoid violent men."

 

He is saying "Don't PROVOKE men, because that man could be violent."

 

Saying "To avoid being mugged, don't walk down a dark alley" is one thing. Saying "Don't make eye contact with anyone on the subway because that might cause them to mug you" is something else entirely. It's saying "You have a role in casuing someone to act violently towards you."

 

There is a huge difference between not putting oneself in a dangerous situation and causing a dangerous situation to happen upon you.

 

This is pretty much the "How sexy was she dressed?" question when talking about a rape victim.

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They just don't listen.

And try to remember to bring him a beer before he has to ask you....and make sure it's a cold one.

-excerpts from the Stephen A. Smith "Guide to domestic tranquility."

 

Tina Turner really needed to stop outshining Ike Turner on stage. I mean, they really were equally to blame when you stop to think about it.

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That's not what he said. At all.

 

He didn't say, "Avoid violent men."

 

He is saying "Don't PROVOKE men, because that man could be violent."

 

Saying "To avoid being mugged, don't walk down a dark alley" is one thing. Saying "Don't make eye contact with anyone on the subway because that might cause them to mug you" is something else entirely. It's saying "You have a role in casuing someone to act violently towards you."

 

There is a huge difference between not putting oneself in a dangerous situation and causing a dangerous situation to happen upon you.

 

This is pretty much the "How sexy was she dressed?" question when talking about a rape victim.

You shouldn't provoke people. I don't care if you are a guy or a girl, but if you do not wish to be involved in a fight, then do not provoke one. Don't spit in someone's face if you aren't prepared for the consequences.
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You shouldn't provoke people. I don't care if you are a guy or a girl, but if you do not wish to be involved in a fight, then do not provoke one. Don't spit in someone's face if you aren't prepared for the consequences.

 

Define provoke.

 

Is asking who some girl was an adequte provocation? Causing someone to be late to a movie? Angrily slamming a door?

 

What specifically should a woman avoid doing that cause someone to knock her unconscious and grab her by the hair. A list of ten things would be helpful.

 

My wife was hit by an old boyfriend for asking him where he as when he came home at 3 in the morning. Was that a provocation she should have avoided?

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