Zguy28 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than AmericaOfficially, the People's Republic of China is an atheist country but that is changing fast as many of its 1.3 billion citizens seek meaning and spiritual comfort that neither communism nor capitalism seem to have supplied. Christian congregations in particular have skyrocketed since churches began reopening when Chairman Mao's death in 1976 signalled the end of the Cultural Revolution. Less than four decades later, some believe China is now poised to become not just the world's number one economy but also its most numerous Christian nation. "By my calculations China is destined to become the largest Christian country in the world very soon," said Fenggang Yang, a professor of sociology at Purdue University and author of Religion in China: Survival and Revival under Communist Rule. Full article at link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 That would be incredibly good if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757SeanTaylor21 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Indubitably Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yet, ...nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Better hope that they don't receive the Falun Gong, Tibetan or Uyghur treatment. China gives two ****s and commits tons of human right violations because they know they'll get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 In attitudes toward the death penalty and homosexuality, they are already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I went to catholic church (occasionally) when i was in china. The Gov of China is (or at least was) very strenuously trying to create a "chinese christianity", basically a version of the church that was controlled by the gov. They kept on deporting or arresting Roman bishops, and basically appointing bishops of their own to replace them (there had been some progress between the vatican and beijing to ome to an agreement on this issue... but i haven't been following it). At the airport they were much more concerned with (or at least appeared to be) unauthorized religious paraphernalia than they were with other contraband. If had they had an idea that you planned on prosthelytizing... you were in deep ****. (and this meant that you BETTER not have even two bibles, for instance). the chance that whatever frankenstein emerges out of this is "incredibly good" is very low... imho. but we will have to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 This is plausible, although evidence presented in the article looks like a poorly supported argument from authority: Prof Yang, a leading expert on religion in China, believes that number will swell to around 160 million by 2025. While natural evolution towards atheism and secularism seems to be expected in advancement of civilization, it looks like attempts to impose atheism by force tend to backfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I assume this is based on the total number of worshipers and not percentage of the population. I don't like the suggestion that China is a secular country just waiting for Christianity. Yes Mao tried to make China secular, but they have a deep religious tradition in Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism. I guess those are technically atheistic religions, but I think that relies on a narrow understanding of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I see "magical thinking" vs naturalism as the underlying dynamic to indicate evolution of societies in relation to religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 This quote caught my attention: "If everyone in China believed in Jesus then we would have no more need for police stations. There would be no more bad people and therefore no more crime," she added. It shows both a profound understanding of the teachings of Jesus and complete ignorance of the church's history. Oh the irony of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 This quote caught my attention: It shows both a profound understanding of the teachings of Jesus and complete ignorance of the church's history. Oh the irony of Christianity. I see her expressing a simple, powerful, and largely universal desire for safety, fairness, goodness.These concepts are very basic and largely universal. Note that besides the love stuff, Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who preached that the end of the world is near and that people should give no thought for the morrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I see "magical thinking" vs naturalism as the underlying dynamic to indicate evolution of societies in relation to religions. of course you do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Note that besides the love stuff, Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who preached that the end of the world is near and that people should give no thought for the morrow. Not really. Where do you get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Not really. Where do you get that from?This source has specific passages if you are willing to look past the blatant agenda:http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm Wiki has a discussion with different schools of interpretation: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypticism#Jesus.27_apocalypticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 This source has specific passages if you are willing to look past the blatant agenda: http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm Wiki has a discussion with different schools of interpretation: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypticism#Jesus.27_apocalypticism Picking a verse here or there is not the way to understand Jesus's message or intentions. For example: He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." (Mark 9:1 NAB) For example, the Kingdom of God is not about end times. Jesus did talk about his return but did not say that it would happen soon and for people not to worry about tomorrow. In fact, Jesus taught the opposite, he wants us to do God's will, it is imperative that we do so. Anyway, there is no way to argue with someone about Christianity if they are going to pick a verse out of context and take whatever they want out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Picking a verse here or there is not the way to understand Jesus's message or intentions. For example: He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." (Mark 9:1 NAB) For example, the Kingdom of God is not about end times. Jesus did talk about his return but did not say that it would happen soon and for people not to worry about tomorrow. In fact, Jesus taught the opposite, he wants us to do God's will, it is imperative that we do so. Anyway, there is no way to argue with someone about Christianity if they are going to pick a verse out of context and take whatever they want out of it. I may not be the best companion for discussions of theology, but I do wonder about some things. For example:Did Jesus know about cells and germs, bacteria and viruses, that we are on a planet that goes around the sun, etc.? Did Jesus have infallible knowledge of his purpose and destiny? Was Jesus ever mistaken about anything he said during his life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 maybe they'll forgive our debt now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I may not be the best companion for discussions of theology, but I do wonder about some things. For example: Did Jesus know about cells and germs, bacteria and viruses, that we are on a planet that goes around the sun, etc.? Did Jesus have infallible knowledge of his purpose and destiny? Was Jesus ever mistaken about anything he said during his life? Unfortunately I'm decent at Christian theology but absolutely stink at philosophy. I'll let people better than I am answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I may not be the best companion for discussions of theology, but I do wonder about some things. For example: Did Jesus know about cells and germs, bacteria and viruses, that we are on a planet that goes around the sun, etc.? Did Jesus have infallible knowledge of his purpose and destiny? Was Jesus ever mistaken about anything he said during his life? whether you like the story or not (or more accurately believe it)... give it its credit for its elegance. Jesus was human. God in human form, with all its frailties, insecurities, longings, and weaknesses, which includes uncertainty and lack of information.... otherwise he would be unable to suffer as a human. the story is a great one. personally, i long to believe it, but am either unable or unwilling to really buy in. But i am envious of those that do get a quiet comfort from their faith. (as opposed to those bombastic proselytizers that are a pain in the ass, and i have to imagine have those types have less faith than those that have a simple quiet confidence) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 whether you like the story or not (or more accurately believe it)... give it its credit for its elegance. Jesus was human. God in human form, with all its frailties, insecurities, longings, and weaknesses, which includes uncertainty and lack of information.... otherwise he would be unable to suffer as a human. the story is a great one. personally, i long to believe it, but am either unable or unwilling to really buy in. But i am envious of those that do get a quiet comfort from their faith. (as opposed to those bombastic proselytizers that are a pain in the ass, and i have to imagine have those types have less faith than those that have a simple quiet confidence) The reason there are "bombastic proselytizers" (I'm assuming I know your meaning here), is that the church has taken on evangelism as a goal to be accomplished, when instead the New Testament demonstrates that it is actually a result. When the gospel of Jesus Christ transforms a person on the inside, they will have that quiet confidence you speak of, but they also will not be able to be quiet about Jesus and how he took our place at the cross so we could be forgiven of sins. They can't help but share it, that's just natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 whether you like the story or not (or more accurately believe it)... give it its credit for its elegance. Jesus was human. God in human form, with all its frailties, insecurities, longings, and weaknesses, which includes uncertainty and lack of information.... otherwise he would be unable to suffer as a human. I see the value and elegance of the story, as well as numerous meaningful parallels that can be drawn between the life of Jesus and humanity in general.Yet this wonderful mythology also has a theology attached to it... and to me this theology looks like a strange anachronism. I cannot make sense of it. I discuss it with people, I ask: why so much suffering? why the need for sacrifice? why Christianity? why the Bible? why old testament god is good? and so on. I get answers, but I cannot make sense of them. I ask more, and I get: It's a mystery. It's faith. It's "faith that it all makes sense". the story is a great one. personally, i long to believe it, but am either unable or unwilling to really buy in. But i am envious of those that do get a quiet comfort from their faith. (as opposed to those bombastic proselytizers that are a pain in the ass, and i have to imagine have those types have less faith than those that have a simple quiet confidence) It seems that "quiet comfort from their faith" was easier when everybody believed the same thing.Is it still an option in the modern world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Not really. Where do you get that from?It comes from the Gospels. http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-34.htm You might make the case it's taken out of context (it suggests a meaning such as "be mindful of the present"), but it's in there all right. Personally I find the business about wailing and gnashing of teeth most troubling. http://biblehub.com/matthew/13-42.htm Still I think the general theme (of the Gospels anyway) is one of selflessness and love. http://mobile.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+13:34-35 The trouble with taking scripture as fact is that it contradicts itself. You have to interpret it. I'm going with the "love one another" version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I see her expressing a simple, powerful, and largely universal desire for safety, fairness, goodness. These concepts are very basic and largely universal. I'm on board with this. I'd add: That universal wisdom you reference is within all religious traditions. The perennial philosophy, it's called. I'd say its perennial because it's true. Yet there is a lot of silly (and harmful) dogma, local custom, etc. mixed in. Some of that has to go (the harmful dogma, say homophobia), some of it should stay (tradition/custom that isn't harmful, say Easter). The main thing is to preserve that universal insight or else we slip into nihilism. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. That's my 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 maybe they'll forgive our debt now?That's hilarious! Layers of meaning here in so few words. Brevity and intensity! Hemingway would be proud. I unfortunately seem to lack this skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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