Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

One Fans Look to the Future:Robert Griffin


darrelgreenie

Recommended Posts

I believe that coaching is about teaching and development.

 

My previous thread was about why the staff may have chosen to install a read-option based passing game. I want to attempt to push the conversation forward and think what could the future hold for Griffin?

 

Griffin came to the Burgundy and Gold as an uber talented QB prospect albeit from a non-traditional offense: the spread. But like other spread QBs Griffin would have to transition into a pro-style QB. Basically Griffin would have to learn to be a rhythm drop back passer. This progression didn't happen as rookie because of the Shanahan'c constructed a brilliant offense based on the Pistol formation and read-option run concepts. Griffin was almost never under center and which limits his ability to progress as a rhythm dropback passer. But, even more limiting was the Pistol read-option passing concepts were based largley off of playaction (~55% of our passes). Make no mistake I don't 'fault' the Shanahan's for this offense it was devastingly effective 4th in points 5th in yards with limited talent on offense outside of Griffin/Morris. But at the end of the day Griffin wasn't being developed following the typical progression of a west coast offense QB.

 

But, pushing it forward does Griffin have the ability to develop as a rhythm drop back passer? I think this is a no brainer. Why is rhythm drop back passing a big deal? Imho a rhythm drop back passing helps a QB develop because it guides the QBs action through muscle memory. The pass play progressions and are linked to the timing with the receivers through footwork. Everything is timed up. But I will stop with the wall of text and just let the best to ever do it demonstrate:

 

 

 

Here is Griffin executing a scripted routine of rhythm drop back passing from under center during his pro-day:

 

 

The ability is there. Griffin's grace of movement reminded me of a more powerful Joe Montana.

Every time I watch it I'm blown away by the potential.

Griffin's movement and footwork were phenomenal for a spread shotgun QB.

He displayed sweet feet and by all account is a smart, hardworkin, willing student.

 

EDIT/NEW:                                                                                                                    

 

A good example or parallel for me is Andy Dalton. Dalton came from a college spread offense not dissimilar to Griffin's offense:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzaJ3Yuchh0

 

2010 Rose Bowl-Andy Dalton

 

Dalton played in a spread-zone read offense same as Robert and consequently was not what people consider a 'pocket passer' (lol whatever that means) in college.

But Grudes did a good job developing Dalton as a 'pocket passer' in his rookie year.

 

Just more evidence that G&G are gonna work, and work very well.

 

.................

Another good example or parallel for me is Nick Foles. Nick Foles came from a college spread offense not dissimilar to Griffin's offense:

 

Nick Foles Arizona:

Robert Griffin Baylor:

 

And one could argue that at Foles pro-day he showed even less polish as a rhythm drop back passer then Griffin did:

Foles starts throwing @ 3:10

Foles didn't even take the snaps from under center and his footwork wasn't as crisp as Griffin's pro-day.

 

But right now I think there is no question that Foles has progressed further. But a QB cannot and doesn't coach/develop themself. What is the delta? Foles spent his rookier year working in a WCO system with 2 respected teachers Andy Reid and Marty Morningwhig. And now Foles had the fortune to land in an offense that blends his college spread concepts with WCO teaching. Chip Kelly and Pat Shurmur.Griffin spent his rookie year setting the league ablaze and had one of the best rookie season in the NFL. And this year for whatever reason Griffin still isn't/hasn't been developed further.

 

Imho we have one of the greatest QB prospects I have ever seen. I mean that statement without exxageration or hype. I think Griffin's potential is a combination of Aaron Rodger + Cam Newton.

The front office just needs to find the right sheppard to get him from where he is now to where we all believe he can go.

 

I leave you with this:

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/369991-2014-comprehensive-nfl-draft-database/?p=9722074

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with most the points in this topic and am definitely optimistic about the future. 

 

Although I could really do without people already proclaiming RGIII is an egotistical primadonna that could potentially become a coach-killer and is the reason we suck. I hope more people adopt the attitude that with an off-season of preparation, RGIII will progress further into becoming a great QB. Not every great QB is great in the first few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard for me to be hopeful about this team after everything that's just happened. 

 

I know myself and I know I'll have hope as always, but it's just hard. 

 

The one thing that can change it for me, real quickly, is learning how involved Bruce Allen is with the scouts/personnel and if it's going to be him leading the coaching search. 

 

If Bruce Allen is really our GM, and he handles our scouting department as well as our coaching search right... I think I can get excited for what the future holds. 

 

Otherwise, I'm going to assume Robert, like everyone else here, will probably fail. 

 

That one link you've been posting recently, dg, from Cooley talking about this gave me a little glimmer of hope. I really hope Bruce Allen takes the reins here. We shall see. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know many hate the $36 million cap penalty "excuse" but how might this team look if that money gave us:

 

1. A quality special teams instead of a historically bad one?

2. A quality RT?

3. A quality FS?

 

I think that is reasonable for $36 million.

 

 4.Now add that to RGIII, if he had an offseason, to continue development.

 

I don't know to what extent Snyder, or the Shannys, coaches, or RGIII are toxic, ego driven, or incompetent.  I just don't think we would be discussing any of this.  We would likely be in contention in a weak NFC East. 

 

Now, going forward, we still have to develop RGIII, while replaceing half a defense. And most likely throw RGIII into an new system.

The problem to me is RGIII is essentially a college QB in a college offense.  He has poor protection, and a weak receiving core, and hasn't had the reps to compensate for it. 

 

I have to believe there are plenty of OC's out there that are well aware of RGIII's still awesome potential, and character.  I don't think it will be as hard as some fear to bring in a quality coach.  I'm all for Bevell. If the Shanny relationship is indeed unrepairable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey fellas lets not drag the BS currently swirling around the team into this thread. I think there are plenty of threads to vent that stuff.

I hope this thread can be about Griffin's skillset his strengths and weaknesses and potential, and how he can be OR how we would like to see him be developed going forward through coaching and scheme.

EDIT/ADD:

Grudes Pass/Run Ratios

http://www.fftoday.com/stats/12_run_pass_ratios.html

Pass/Run ratio w/Grudes:

2013-54.96/45.04

2012-55.67/44.33

2011-55.04/45.96

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post as usual DG, Robert is an amazing talent. Maybe once in a lifetime talent. Last year before preseason every NFL QB coach that worked with him, walked away speechless. All of them saying " you only have to tell him how to do it one time". His maturity and leadership ie intangibles are off the chart. I feel blessed he is our QB!

 

I hope everyone shows patience with his growth, trust me I know it's hard to be patient when we have suffered for so long at the QB position. Last season he tore the NFL a new one. He wasn't running his college offense either when he won OROY.

 

HTTR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DG I think its very obvious why RGIII has not progress and may I also say regressed.  When you spend 8 months doing nothing but rehap on a knee that has had two major operations you can't progress.  This is why I have been critical of RGIII and especially Mike this year because I feel this kid should not have started the first 4 games at least.  It is not fair the firestorm he had to endure, even though one can say with his all in for day one he brought a lot of it on himself.

 

I don't know who we have on staff to work with RGIII in the offseason and get him on the right track again.  I know if I was Snyder one of the major questions I would as interviewing new coaches would be just that.  Who do you have in mind (if not you) to work with RGIII and tap his raw potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I just want the mess to be over with and go back to being a regular football team, regardless of record; even if we were 6-10, as long as the drama crap disappears i'll be happy; i'll still **** and moan but i'll be happy.

 

 But with media today, twitter, facebook, and all the other communication avenues, its difficult for a player/coach/owner to fart without it being splashed into the public's eye.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm eternally optimistic about RG3.

 

In past years, this circus (which I think we all could say is not too far from prior experiences) would have drained me to no end. I'm not that upset. RG3 is why. I generally in the past would just weather all the BS NYG, Dal and Philly fans would send. I confidently reply now we are the best team going forward. I honestly believe that.

 

Watched the whole Heisman reel and noticed 2 things. Early in reel he actually performed an adequate and fundamental slide. So, the 'technology does exist'. Also, on more serious side, more than a few times when pocket broke down and he scrambled, he definitely was looking downfield.

 

We all heard Colinsworth critic him for not doing that. I am adamant about how are receivers never have any separation. I feel if we land another top threat and a healthy Reed, we are competitive from jump street next year. 

 

Anyhow...I see us as a Carolina next year. So many similarities. You will say our defense isn't even on same planet. Well, watching Sunday night, they highlighted where these guys were acquired. 6th round, practice squad from another team, waivers. A lot of Car defense aren't blue chip talents. In fact, some had go arounds with other teams. 

 

Point is, the right scheme and getting players to buy in can turn a team around. Talent is only half the game and I think Carolina's D displays that.

 

So right now, I just want Snyder to sit down, absorb the stench of this year and in calculated fashion hire the BEST QB 'teacher' available. For the first time maybe ever, Skins have the most important piece on the chessboard in prime position.

 

WE NEED A TEACHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good post dg, you address what ought to be the core concern now- who would best maximize Robert's talents as coach?

 

I still applaud hiring Shanahan, we needed someone to dig us out of the mess we were in, but now we need someone with the vision to take this team to the next level. Griffin is a rare talent, more than just physical skills on the field, and deserves a staff that can foster his growth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regardless of the coach or the scheme the thing that will help him best is an improvement in pass protection from the OL. This upcoming offseason is critical to the development of RGIII and the Redskins, and not just because he will (hopefully) enter it in one piece this year. Assuming we swap coaches, the whole blocking philosophy may change, and with it a turnover in line positions. An incoming coach is going to have to bring in at least two new starting calibre linemen, and find another receiving threat, on top of all the upgrades required in the defense.

 

So RGIII will be faced with a new scheme and new people in front of him, and we have to hope that this time everything sticks, because the alternative is the hell of rotating coaches and schemes that we know kill QB development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am still very psyched about RGIII and absolutely believe he is a stud franchise QB that will lead this team for the next 10 years. He is the real deal. All 2013 proves is that the offseason is vital for QB development and that O-Line is critical for QB development/performance. RGIII had neither in 2013.

Foles is a great analogy. Watch some of the Eagles games...... HE NEVER GETS TOUCHED!!! He has all day to throw and usually finds a wide open WR because of that time. RGIII barely has enough time to get to his second read. Put RGIII behind the Eagles O-Line, the Seattle O-Line, the San Fran O-Line, the Carolina O-Line and nobody would be questioning his franchise QB ability or future.

Rhythm Passing is huge and every great QB passes in rhythm. There is no rhythm to the Redskins offense when Tyson Jackson is blowing up the entire interior of the O-Line.

I still believe in RGIII!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good post dg, you address what ought to be the core concern now- who would best maximize Robert's talents as coach?......Griffin is a rare talent, more than just physical skills on the field, and deserves a staff that can foster his growth.

I think Griffin's skillset is rare. His potential in all phases is great.

When I re-watch the video of his pro-day I see a QB that any QB coach/OC would love to have.

His footwork is light,quick and powerful at the same time. His footwork reminds me of Joe Montana in those videos. He snaps the ball off on rhythm with quickness, velocity and accuracy.

I would love to see him in an offense that builds him from the ground up and uses his potential for great footwork to build a devasting passing attack.

I would love to see him in an offense like the Chip Kelly/Eagles.

In the midst of all this craziness I am comforted by Griffin's phenomenal skillset and potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RGIII in terms of skillset is to quarterbacking what Michael Jordan is to basketball. Literally the total package. As a prospect, he's basically that Madden player we've all created as a kid (assuming you're like under 30 lol) who had 99 in every stat, but you gave him a 70 in awareness to balance him out lol. He'll be fine.

 

If only we had traded for Josh Gordon though.

 

 

God damn it he nailed it AGAIN!

Where is the dg of the Campbell era!? This one is getting too darn smart for his pants!

Hail.

 

The irony is that a lot of our fanbase has declared RGIII Campbell with speed.

 

And here's the question - if RGIII can slide in college, why can't he slide well here? Is it possible that the Shanahan regime has made him worse than he was at college?

 

I know that what they're running here is less suited to the pro game than Baylor's offense so who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who is the QB coach that is supposed to be developing Robert?  Who is the OLine coach?  Who is the receivers coach?

 

We always knew the coaches' names, now I don't know anyone outside of Mike, Kyle, Hazlett, and Morris.  That tells me that the rest of the coaches are failing at their jobs.  If Robert has regressed, it's not only due to his off season rehab.  Where is the teaching during the season?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its amazing to see the power and velocity that the ball comes out of his hand with in the college clips. It just explodes out of there. Add to that his smarts, work ethic and as you mentioned very well, his footwork which is very good and he has all the tools.

 

I think it's no secret the injury has hampered his mechanics and that is contributing to some of his accuracy issues this season. He is not beyond repair. If we get the right coach in here to teach him and develop his coverage and blitz reading (which I dont think he is as poor as made out to be here) and smooth out some of the mechanical changes he picked up from the injury, I think the sky is the limit. 

 

Is it best to that through a drop back passing development from under center? I don't know the answer to that. I do know that Brees, Brady Manning, Rodgers etc spend a lot of time in the shotgun so I don't understand why many point to that as a criticism. That is where the league is now. But I do see that it makes sense in understanding the whole process to become a rhythm drop back passer too and that should definitely be developed as well. 

 

I am really looking forward to seeing him progress this offseason and heading into next year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this elsewhere but its on topic here

 

 

Was just listening to Greg Cosell on Czaben's/Cooley's show.   He's been critical last season and this season about the offense saying it holds back RG3's development as a passer.  

 

He bascially said --

 

1. Rg3 is the no brainer starter for next season -- he's super talented

2. He thinks Cousins can avoid sacks better right now becuase he's a rythmn style passer

3. He thinks it makes no sense to bench RG3 -- he needs the reps

4.  He thinks Cousins has a good chance to light it up becuase Atlanta and Dallas pass defenses are awful 

 

Cosell in other interviews has said more or less you can't teach talent, you got it or you don't and RG3 has a rocket of an arm, can make tight throws and is accurate.  Now this year, RG3's clearly lost some of that accuracy.  But I recall a twitter exchange earlier this season with Joe Theismann where Joe said RG3 won't be the same until next year -- reason being QB accuracy is most effected by your plant leg.  And he said since that's where RG3 had the surgery it won't feel totally right until a year post surgery.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its amazing to see the power and velocity that the ball comes out of his hand with in the college clips. It just explodes out of there. Add to that his smarts, work ethic and as you mentioned very well, his footwork which is very good and he has all the tools.

 

I think it's no secret the injury has hampered his mechanics and that is contributing to some of his accuracy issues this season. He is not beyond repair. If we get the right coach in here to teach him and develop his coverage and blitz reading (which I dont think he is as poor as made out to be here) and smooth out some of the mechanical changes he picked up from the injury, I think the sky is the limit. 

 

Is it best to that through a drop back passing development from under center? I don't know the answer to that. I do know that Brees, Brady Manning, Rodgers etc spend a lot of time in the shotgun so I don't understand why many point to that as a criticism. That is where the league is now. But I do see that it makes sense in understanding the whole process to become a rhythm drop back passer too and that should definitely be developed as well. 

 

I am really looking forward to seeing him progress this offseason and heading into next year. 

Here's my take....

 

Specific to this offense (which thankfully no longer matters) Mike/Kyle offenses are usually predicated upon playing from under center. So for this offense it would be of special importance being a rhythm drop back passer.

 

But, in general I believe learning as rhythm drop back passer helps a QB because it builds muscle memory for going through the route progression. At the top of the drop back when the QB's back foot hits the ground the throw should go to X if X isn't there hitch up in the pocket and throw to Y reset and throw Z if Z is gone throw away etc...

Drew Brees goes through 'shadow reps' of pass plays during his pre-game warm-ups. He goes through the footwork for each play and mock-throws each progression. (I will try to find video of this)

Brees is actually one of the QBs/scheme I want  Griffin to emulate most next to Aaron Rodgers.

 

Each play has a physical rhythm to it. It provides a structure a base. Once a QB has mastered the rhythm drop back process then going to shotgun all the time isn't as hard because they already mastered the rhythm/timing of the plays.

Kinda like how a free style jazz muscian has to learn how to master sheet music first or how an artist has to master basic media and composition before they specialize. If that makes any sense...

 

And if you look at the Panthers they have Cam doing more under center rhythm drop back passing.

 

Neither here nor there one of my pet peeves is the term 'pocket passing' people like to throw around that Griffin isn't/wasn't a good 'pocket passer' but what does that even mean? Where else does a QB do there passing? I just wish people would use the right terms. Because if they really just mean 'pocket passing' Griffin was a damn good pocket passer in college he just did it from shotgun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After thinking about it, sitting RG3 for the remainder of the season is probably the best thing for him.

 

Although I applaud his efforts to come back from MAJOR knee surgery in absolute record time, through 13 weeks it was quite evident how important a full offseason is to a quarterback. The rhythm, the timing, footwork, mechanics, call it what you want, it just wasn't there.

 

One season removed from being the talk of the nation, posting record breaking numbers, winning the division, winning Rookie of the Year, and being the media darling, a season like this is exactly what he needed to bring him back down to Earth.

 

Robert, while a rare talent, is still human, and he needed to be humbled.

 

I expect him to work harder than ever before in the offseason this year, not just to prove his critics wrong, but that's just who he is as a competitor. 

 

I have the utmost faith and confidence in Robert, and I promise you, he will be back and better than ever.

 

In 2014, The Red Knight will RISE.

 

(Dark Knight credit music plays)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...