2014 Comprehensive Nfl Draft Database

[RemoveSnyder]

And just thinking about the upcoming QB class, I was really impressed with Mettenberger's game against Georgia. I mean he was constantly hummin' the ball downfield. The window in which he fitted the ball into, for Jarvis Landry, was an NFL window. Now Landry made an excellent catch but Mettenberger was the one to groove it in there. 

 

He too is another guy with a nice spin, a catchable ball and noticeable range to his passes. Just from first look he's got an arm. Maybe it was just me, but when reading this cbs article, I know it's not just me, but ZM showed off an NFL arm. They mention velocity in the article, yep, that's what I saw too. I saw some humdingers. 

 

So right now ... looking at CBS' current rankings: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/QB

There's no way that I place Zach Mettenberger behind Fales, Murray or McCarron. I think he's better than those guys.

[Dukes and Skins]

And just thinking about the upcoming QB class, I was really impressed with Mettenberger's game against Georgia. I mean he was constantly hummin' the ball downfield. The window in which he fitted the ball into, for Jarvis Landry, was an NFL window. Now Landry made an excellent catch but Mettenberger was the one to groove it in there. 

 

He too is another guy with a nice spin, a catchable ball and noticeable range to his passes. Just from first look he's got an arm. Maybe it was just me, but when reading this cbs article, I know it's not just me, but ZM showed off an NFL arm. They mention velocity in the article, yep, that's what I saw too. I saw some humdingers. 

 

So right now ... looking at CBS' current rankings: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/QB

There's no way that I place Zach Mettenberger behind Fales, Murray or McCarron. I think he's better than those guys.

 

I harped on it consistently last year, but that Alabama game was when things changed for him. Things began to slow down and he became confident in his receivers. He's steadily improving every week and going to be a starting QB in the NFL at some point IMO

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Random but i would LOVE if we could get De'anthony Thomas in the second this coming draft. Our O is lacking playmakers as we all know and i think he would be a great fit. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Last year? Mark Barron, Harrison Smith

 

Harrison Smith did well, but Barron struggled.  The Bucs spent a lot trying to beef up their secondary.  Getting Revis and signing Goldson to a big deal.

 

Not sure how well Barron's played this season.  Haven't watched any of the Bucs games.

[Dukes and Skins]

Kills me to say it, but I would love to see Kyle Fuller here in DC. Him and Amerson would be a damn good CB tandem for a long time. Another guy I'm gonna keep my eye on still is Dominique Easley, as I think he's a legitimate talent, but I'm not sure where he'll go after the injury.

 

OL I've resigned myself to not really concerning myself with as I think its really only a few positions of need. Those being ILB, SS, CB, DE, WR/Playmaker

[RemoveSnyder]

I'm taking Northwestern in an upset of Ohio State, Sat - 8pm.

 

Historically NW plays spoiler more often than not, genrally late in season though, like Nov., so it could be a little early and wishful thinking.

[RemoveSnyder]

2nd round CBs? - is that the topic?

 

I'd be pleased with Aaron Colvin there.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

2nd round CBs? - is that the topic?

 

I'd be pleased with Aaron Colvin there.

 

See. I KNEW there was a reason I loved this guy. 

 

Talent spotter supreme. 

 

Hail. 

[CRobi21]

Good stuff on Melvin Gordon III Monk. Dude looks like a Jamaal Charles clone to me. Love his game.

[Laron Burgundy]

Van Noy is on my dream draft list.  His play recognition and football iq is top notch.  I could see him at ILB for us or even OLB if he bulked up about 10 pounds (If Orakpo is let go and Kerrigan is moved to the right I think Van Noy makes sense on the left).  There's a possibility he's there if we draft early enough in the 2nd.  I wonder how much of our defensive problems would be fixed if our ILB were better.  Don't think we necessarily draft another safety next year.  We'll probably see how the guys develop.

[Laron Burgundy]

And Haha Clinton-Dix has been suspended.  Who knows how much that affects his draft stock.  Add him with Rambo for the all-name team at safety.

[Going Commando]

On a tablet so my responses to smq will be truncated:

Morris is a stud, what are you talking about? Even outside of the RO he's stil a 5.5 ypc a pop guy. He's just getting so few carries because our defense takes us out of games. He's one dimensional, but most Shanahan backs are. Imo he's the 3rd best back Shanny's ever had, behind TD and Denver Portis. Hankerson might be more than pedestrian and if he turns into a stud, then number 3 and 4 don't need to be more than serviceable. And Reed is going to be above average at worst. All Reed did at Florida was catch contested balls in traffic from his ****ty QBs.

I'm more concerned about our OL, seeing the ZBS kinda makes it hard to drop back and pass Brady/Manning style, but once RGIII gets healthy and we work back the movement into our offense, it'll be fine. We really need someone, anyone to emerge as an upgrade though. And as for Polumbus, **** Mara, we could have had Eric Winston if not for the cap bull****. Offensively, we'll be fine once RGIII gets healthy.

Defensively, I disagree on Cofield, he's not a true stud but he does make plays and create pressure. Bowen isn't very good anymore though. Jenkins is actually pretty good, I'd really like to wait and see. Orakpo isn't a big time playmaker, he's really the Mike Rucker of our defense.The elephant in the room of our D is the ILBs though. Fletcher, sadly, is washed up. Riley is pret good, a bit better than ordinary but Fletcher simply misses too many plays, though his instincts and leadership are still too hard to replace. I'd actually give Rob Jackson a shot at ILB. I'm not worried about Rambo though it's a real shame Thomas got hurt. And Amerson is gonna be a stud in time. Hall and Wilson are who they are.

I'm really hoping for a 40-34 shootout so Haslett can get canned. He's a joke. And I have a feeling Morris could be decent at worst. Raheem Morris has actually coached quality NFL defenses. I have a feeling Haslett is holding us back the same way Cam Cameron held the Ravens back.

Taken me a while to get back into NFL talk. Frustration with the Redskins + disgust with the NFL is taking its toll. I'm watching CFB still. So I'll keep chiming in here.

Last week the defense put on a show. I'm going to respond to your thoughts on the offense before I get to the D, where my thoughts are more concrete.

The offense still looks terrible. And it's not just about RGIII, who is growing more comfortably individually. It's a systemic lack of talent IMO. I believe that, with limited FA dollars and a lack of draft picks, Mike Shanahan has built in a lack of talent on that side of the ball because he thinks he can "coach up" ordinary guys.

Trent and RGIII are true blue chip studs. No one else on the O is. And this really shouldn't be surprising. Everyone else on the offense except Garcon and Freddy D was either a mid to late round pick or a bargain FA. Garcon was a mid tier FA who is performing about at the level you'd expect there. Freddy D isn't working out.

I feel like we've placed too much faith in our ability to unearth later round gems for offense, too much necessity on RGIII to make all the plays himself.

I don't agree with you that Morris is a stud. He's very good, and he's been very productive, but I don't think he's a special back. He churns out yards and almost always at least gets back to the LoS. He has good vision and runs hard enough to wear down defenses over time. Those are his biggest strengths. But he doesn't create for himself before the LoS or fully capitalize on big plays when he gets the opening. He doesn't make things happen. And I don't believe he contributes to the passing game.

I think Morris would be all we need at RB IF we had playmakers at other skill positions. So lets get some.

I think you're expecting too much from Reed too. It's possible we got a gem there, and he seems to be taking his opportunity and running with it. But he wasn't productive at Florida, QB issues or no. It's Florida. And he's not a remarkable physical talent. If it's an issue of him just being a late bloomer, then OK. We'll wait on his upside. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect big things out of him.

I don't really see Hank becoming a stud. I think he's another ordinary player that doesn't really stand out in any part of his game and has only been marginally productive to date.

Defensively, the unit can make big plays. Much more readily than the offense IMO. But they also have serious fundamental flaws built into the unit. Tackling has been an issue for a while. Basic coverage breakdowns have been an issue for a while.

Cofield is a nice NT. There aren't many difference maker NTs. I think he's all you need at NT and I'm perfectly fine with him there. You saw him eat up his match up last weekend, he can make some plays.

I think where you really want your difference making DL talent is at DE. The group we've got there now is pedestrian.

I feel like Jenkins is fools gold at this point. I don't remember another player getting this kind of benefit of the doubt from the fan base for basically nothing. Even if his career hasn't been derailed by the way it started, he wasn't really a playmaker or a disruptor at Clemson. Bottom line though, this guy needs to get on the field and do something.

Riley is competent, doesn't wow in any respect, but can handle every part of his job. He's a successful 4th round pick, and that kind of draft pedigree explains his ceiling accurately... He's not really a gem like Navorro Bowman, but also not someone that's easy to upgrade.

London's situation is a little depressing. Most of us knew that the defense would fall apart again like 2006's D when he declined. Well, it's happened. You're going to get weeks where he plays like his old self. But most weeks he will not. We're simply not going to be able to replace what he used to be and it sucks. Probably not without a high draft pick.

I like the Mike Rucker comparison for Orakpo. He can definitely exploit inferior talent like we saw last weekend with Khalif Barnes. And he's going to chug along and get pressures at a nice clip and he's going to be competent in coverage and playing the run. If you had a playmaking DE somewhere on the line in front of him, you'd have absolutely no complaints about Orakpo. So that's what I think we need to get. I want to keep Orakpo. I don't want to overpay to do it. I don't think we should have to. And I want to focus on upgrading the exterior defensive linemen.

Kerrigan is a hoss. That draft pick has worked out very well. He's not in the very top tier of guys like Clay Matthews/Von Miller/Aldon Smith. But he's just below them and we're not going to do better than him. He and David Amerson are our two most vital long term pieces on D.

I agree that Amerson is a blue chipper. The most talented player on the D IMO. He's already shown off how incredible his ball skills are. Get the man a safety that he can trust and grow with and he can be something special when he gets it all figured out. He has the tools to be a top tier CB.

Agreed that Wilson and Hall are who they are--mediocre corners. The plus with Deangelo though is that every season, you're going to get X number of big plays that can swing games. If we had one more really big, really excellent corner to play on the outside with Amerson and move Deangelo into the true Charles Woodson role, you would be very happy with that group of corners. Deangelo isn't going to play like this forever though.

The safety situation is dire right now. I hope that Rambo pans out. Boy has he had it rough thus far. He's pressing so much, the game is too fast for him, and he's just not a reliable option right now. I hope we give him time before we run him out of town. I think it's going to take some time before we see a nice return on ivenstment there.

And yeah, the Thomas injury sucks. We have no idea what we've got there. I don't think Merriweather is working out. I don't think Bernstine is anything special. And I know that having Reed start is not a very good situation.

So I think there is a good chance the secondary still needs work. I think, more than anything, this D needs a STUD at DE. And we need a good ILB and the guy isn't on the roster today.

Offense is where we need the most work though IMO. When you've got a QB like RGIII, build a juggernaut! You can't help but watch the Peyton Manning and Drew Brees and see what kind of incredible synergy pairing an elite QB with big time talent creates. I don't want to have to rely on RGIII's playmaking and some nebulous sort of system/coaching edge to win with ordinary talent. I want to see us revamp our WR/TE core and upgrade the OL talent. If you spend some money or a decent pick on an offensive lineman at LG-RT, you will probably get an upgrade.

And yeah, Haslett needs to be replaced. The defense hasn't improved. Whether or not he's holding us back, we can at least be certain he's not moving us forward.

[Going Commando]

Malcolm Brown, #90 DT for Texas is pretty dang good.

Also, David Irving, #87 DE from Iowa State is HUGE! I think I caught one play tonight that was picture perfect containment. The play was nice.

[Laron Burgundy]

For offense, great year to draft a tight end if the juniors come out.  Very good class this year and at this point I'd be thrilled with any of the top 5 or 6.

 

Hageman was my sleeper defensive end last year, but now apparently has shot up to 1st or 2nd rounder.  Last year he was pegged as a late rounder and I thought that was more appropriate than where he's at now.  Still has a ways to go but is just brimming with potential.

 

And if there is one later guy with unlimited potential at our pick it's gotta be Seantrel Henderson.  Hard to believe he's 6'7 340, he moves so fluidly.  Not the greatest balance in traffic but he's fantastic at mirroring.  Also just brutal strength.  He'll make mental mistakes, send two guys at him and his indecisiveness on picking up the blitz will often cause him to block neither.  It seems like he could improve upon that though, as he has relatively little experience despite being a senior.  I have a feeling this guy will put on a show at the combine though.

[RemoveSnyder]

I wonder how much of our defensive problems would be fixed if our ILB were better. 

All I know is that Riley has killed us in pass coverage this year. In re-watching both the Packer and Lions game, but especially the Packers game, he was responsible for the 1st TD Rogers threw to #18 (blown coverage) and he was partially responsible for a 2nd TD (not sinking deep enough in his zone), the one that occurred against Hall (rounded off slant pattern).

 

Then of course you had Orakpo who got ate up by Finely for another TD, that game vs the Packers.

 

Anyway Riley (and 'Po) is a major liability in pass coverage. So if we continue to place two ILBs on the field in our base packages, then when Slot receivers find themselves in one-on-one matchups vs Riley, we're toast. That applies to athletic TEs as well.

[Going Commando]

The Fallacy of Prior Play.

That's the grand name I've come up with for a draft theory I've been mulling over.

I think a pitfall of player projection is too greatly assuming the future will resemble the past with players. It results from a failure to identify and account for all the factors that influence player performance at the college level that will not come along with him to the NFL level.

Not all production is created equal.

In this fallacy, a player's value will be inflated by past success in college, people will derive ability too heavily from his production. For example, a player will be seen as having good instincts because he makes a lot of tackles and plays--whether or not he was making those plays based on an instincts, based on an athletic advantage he would no longer have in the NFL, or based on the system and surrounding talent funneling plays to him at an outsized rate. e.g. Aaron Curry & Keith Rivers. It should have been obvious from watching them that they were not instinctive players, but were making plays based on a type of athletic advantage that would no longer be pronounced in the NFL.

I think you can really see this fallacy in play when players are ranked and graded early in their college careers. Particularly players who start for very high profile teams. Matt Barkley is an example. Let's go with Robert Lester for another example. Both were extremely overrated by the draftnik community as underclassmen, mostly because they played high profile roles for big time teams. Then when you got closer to the draft and people took a more seriously look at their ability levels, their draft ranges became much more realistic.

I think the reverse also happens: good players with translatable ability have checkered college performances and get inaccurately penalized for them. e.g. Trent Williams and David Amerson.

- The media and draftnik community overreacts to performances and small sample sizes. e.g. Manti Teo. Shaky performance in the NC game = serious drop in draft stock??? You're talking about a difference of a month from when he was previously considered a Heisman finalist. He's the same guy he's always been, he didn't suddenly forget how to play football in a month.

And I think NFL teams are guilty of this too.

There is no draft stock roller coaster for players. The player's true value is constant. The only thing that changes wildly is the draftnik's awareness of that value, because he bases it on flawed rubrics, decontextualized early returns, and incomplete data for most of the process. As we get closer to the actual draft, the general rule is that draft projections from the media stabilize and become more accurate. Mel Kiper's draft board in April will have almost all of the correct first rounders in it, not so in September or October. And I think this is mostly because they get better information from their sources in the NFL, which has mostly finished the process of evaluation by then.

- The media and draftnik community does a poor job contextualizing performance in general. They might consider a performance bad based on a few bad plays when a coach or player might not.

- The media and draftnik community (and I bet many pro scouts) improperly derive ability from performance in games in college. There is an important distinction to be made between production that comes from a player demonstrating translatable skills, and production that comes primarily from an untranslatable set of circumstances.

It's like people have known this about QBs since the rise of the shotgun spread option but they haven't really considered it as much for the other positions.

I've spent a lot of time the past few years studying CBB and the NBA draft and this is an idea that has a lot more currency in that community. The irony is BB players have much better sample sizes of performances from a college season of 30+ games than FB players, and there isn't nearly the variation in system in BB than FB. But the talent is much younger in BB and it's better understood that the player you saw at Gonzaga last season is not the player you're going to see in Boston from now on. So projections tend to rely much more heavily on demonstrated raw skill set/athletic tools and abilities.

Which should be the case for football too.

[Laron Burgundy]

All I know is that Riley has killed us in pass coverage this year. In re-watching both the Packer and Lions game, but especially the Packers game, he was responsible for the 1st TD Rogers threw to #18 (blown coverage) and he was partially responsible for a 2nd TD (not sinking deep enough in his zone), the one that occurred against Hall (rounded off slant pattern).

 

Then of course you had Orakpo who got ate up by Finely for another TD, that game vs the Packers.

 

Anyway Riley (and 'Po) is a major liability in pass coverage. So if we continue to place two ILBs on the field in our base packages, then when Slot receivers find themselves in one-on-one matchups vs Riley, we're toast. That applies to athletic TEs as well.

 

Let's not forget Fletcher in that too.  We can't cover the middle of the field and it hurts us.  I used to put a lot of that blame on safeties, but now I'm not so sure.  Our safeties aren't great, but when they have to contend with open slot receivers and tight ends on a constant basis, it's no wonder the corners don't get much help on the outside.  I've got to imagine that best case scenario we're replacing 7 starters from this defense in the next 2 years.  Some replacements may already be on the roster, but I think in most spots (ILB, DE) we've got nothing for the future.

 

Oh, and Steve I think that's a good analysis.  I shy away from superstar offenses or defenses.  As far as I remember, the early 2000s Hurricanes were about the only unit that was loaded with superstars who produced at the pro level, and even then it was Reed, ST and Wilfork who lived up to their draft status with guys like Vilma and DJ Williams who were just good enough to start somewhere.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

All I know is that Riley has killed us in pass coverage this year. In re-watching both the Packer and Lions game, but especially the Packers game, he was responsible for the 1st TD Rogers threw to #18 (blown coverage)

 

That's a little ridiculous.  How many linebackers can cover Randall Cobb one on one?  Of course he got toasted.  Blame needs to be placed elsewhere on that one.  Such as the guy who called the play that put Riley in single coverage with Cobb.

 

We do need better coverage from our ILB's, but let's not ask them to do the impossible.

[Going Commando]

I agree, we don't have anything for the future at ILB and DE. Perry Riley is probably the only one who'll still be here at those spots in two years.

I think we keep Orakpo and he and Kerrigan are very stable. I think we stick with Bowen for a while, and NTs can play for a while. And I think Amerson is a keeper and I'm hoping Thomas and Rambo are keepers too. After that, yeah, I see a lot of openings.

Especially if we fire Haslett and change philosophies.

Superstar Ds are definitely tricky. It's hard to separate out which ones are the really good ones from the bunch. Take Alabama for example. Streams of NFL prospects, most of whom are overachievers who are lucky to hold down a starting job in the NFL. Some of it is about those guys being system players that need to find the right team and then they can plug along and have fine careers despite being fairly ordinary. DeMeco Ryans in his early Houston days comes to mind. Jarrett Jack.

Then other guys get overdrafted and aren't really that special. Dareus and Barron. Maybe Ro McClain qualifies although I think most of his problems were mental.

Then still other guys get drafted where they should IMO and I think they'll end up meeting expectations, like Dee Milliner. Nico Johnson too.

Mainly I think most of those players just don't experience much adversity at Bama and they really don't make many plays. Their stats are always depressed. Some of them are studs and help lift all the boats. Others are beneficiaries. It's tricky trying to figure out which ones are which.

[darrelgreenie]

Steve-

The offense still looks terrible. And it's not just about RGIII, who is growing more comfortably individually. It's a systemic lack of talent IMO. I believe that, with limited FA dollars and a lack of draft picks, Mike Shanahan has built in a lack of talent on that side of the ball because he thinks he can "coach up" ordinary guys.

Trent and RGIII are true blue chip studs. No one else on the O is. And this really shouldn't be surprising. Everyone else on the offense except Garcon and Freddy D was either a mid to late round pick or a bargain FA. Garcon was a mid tier FA who is performing about at the level you'd expect there. Freddy D isn't working out.

 

You say lack of talent I say lack of coaching/coordination. This is the same unit that produced a very productive offense last year.

No need to repeat the numbers because you know them. Garcon, Fred Davis, Tana Moss, Morgan/Hankerson, Reed those are better weapons then many more productive offensive units.

 

 

Offense is where we need the most work though IMO. When you've got a QB like RGIII, build a juggernaut! You can't help but watch the Peyton Manning and Drew Brees and see what kind of incredible synergy pairing an elite QB with big time talent creates. I don't want to have to rely on RGIII's playmaking and some nebulous sort of system/coaching edge to win with ordinary talent. I want to see us revamp our WR/TE core and upgrade the OL talent. If you spend some money or a decent pick on an offensive lineman at LG-RT, you will probably get an upgrade.

Where you point to lack of talent I see lack of coaching. I think Drew Brees make his players far more then his players make him. Outside of Graham there isn't remarkable level of talent there. The production comes from Brees/Payton operating at a high level. I think talent should be acquired at all levels, i've been banging the drum for a RT every year of the Shanahan/Allen regime. But net-net defense is the priority in my eyes.

 

We lack talent on every level of the defense in my eyes but more importantly our base front lacks a playmaker at DE.

[santana_4_prez]

Has anybody mentioned Marcus Murphy from Mizzou?  I'm not sure where he is projected to get drafted, but he is a stud return guy.

Never mind.  Marcus Murphy is just a junior still.  Wow.  

[Going Commando]

Steve-

 

You say lack of talent I say lack of coaching/coordination. This is the same unit that produced a very productive offense last year.

No need to repeat the numbers because you know them. Garcon, Fred Davis, Tana Moss, Morgan/Hankerson, Reed those are better weapons then many more productive offensive units.

Well, though it's the exact same unit, exact same coaching staff, they're not the same offense as last year. They've been utterly terrible. We're simply lucky to string together a couple first downs in the first half of a game now. I don't think you can put that on just the coaches.

Last year's offense was so successful because RGIII was spectacularly good. He hasn't been this year. Some of the offensive concepts we ran so successfully might never work the same again. Relying on him to sustain the offense like we did last year is an untenable situation.

 

Where you point to lack of talent I see lack of coaching. I think Drew Brees make his players far more then his players make him. Outside of Graham there isn't remarkable level of talent there. The production comes from Brees/Payton operating at a high level. I think talent should be acquired at all levels, i've been banging the drum for a RT every year of the Shanahan/Allen regime. But net-net defense is the priority in my eyes.

 

We lack talent on every level of the defense in my eyes but more importantly our base front lacks a playmaker at DE.

You're right, Brees was a poor example. The Saints have spent good draft picks on offense for hopeful difference makers like Charles Johnson and Mark Ingram, but those guys haven't really worked out. Most of their offensive success comes from Brees and Payton. So instead I offer Aaron Rodgers as an example. The Packers have spent a lot of draft resources on the offense and Rodgers has a lot of surrounding talent, and he's got playmakers.

Two years ago Kyle Shanahan noted how the offense had no playmakers. So we went out and got Garcon and RGIII and we also got Morris. RGIII was obviously a huge step and a huge commitment in resources. But Garcon and Morris really weren't. Garcon is good, but not great, he was a middle tier FA. I think the same is true of Morris, except that he was a low round draft pick whose salary is negligible.

I don't think that was doing enough personnel-wise to add playmakers and difference makers. I think we still lack these types of players throughout the offense, and that the only way we're going to find and add more of them is to spend some money and some decent draft picks on guys with remarkable talent. Maybe bring in some top tier athletes at WR and TE and on the OL.

I think I might have overreacted to last Sunday's game in comparing the D to the O. The D looked excellent, the O looked horrid once again. It's probably true that the offense has more guys on it that are passable and we could get by with them still being here in two years. And our two best players are Trent and RGIII.

But the coaches on the offensive side are better than the ones on defense IMO. And the offense has been terrible and putting the D in awful spots consistently and making them shoulder a load they are not capable of carrying.

I think if you found a better coach, added one elite DE, found some passable starting safeties, and replaced Fletcher with an excellent player, you're work would basically be done on D. I don't believe you see diminishing returns from stacking up talent in the front seven, but rather a positive cumulative effect. And I think it should be pretty inexpensive to find acceptable safeties. Hell I think you could simply replace Haslett and make some major strides.

I think it'll be harder and take longer to fix the problems on offense, where I think finding significant upgrades to the WR/TE and OL groups is both necessary and difficult.

I think we're going to need to spend some money/decent draft picks on offense this offseason. I do not want to stand pat with this group going into next season.

[Going Commando]

Here are some FA targets that I would look into. If we could get a couple difference makers in FA this offseason, you could see immediate gains. It'd make building up the O and D much easier moving forward:

HB/WR/TE:

- Darren McFadden

- Jeremy Maclin

- Emmanuel Sanders

- Kenny Britt

- Hakeem Nicks (though man he's starting to look washed up)

- Ed Dickson

- Dennis Pitta

- Tony Moekai

- Jimmy Graham

I'll do other positions later, but just scanning over that list, it's not great. Looks like a sketchy year for FA offensive skill position talent.

The OL group actually has some good names in it though.

And there are some nice defenders in the FA class. I like a Lamarr Houston signing for us and think he could be the kind of imposing and disruptive DE we're looking for. Henry Melton and BJ Raji are some other intriguing options. Linval Joseph is a UFA.

There are also a lot of talented starting DBs hitting UFA.

So it might make sense to go out and spend money on the D and free ourselves to build the offense however we want through the draft.

[TheGoodBits]

I'd love to focus on defense in FA and invest heavily in skill positions in the draft. Talib might be playing his way into a massive payday but I'm hoping that there's a chance to bring him in. Other than that, ILB and FS are two positions we should try to fill in FA. How are those classes looking?

Skill positions, there's going to be a lot of opportunity for guys to step up next year. List of guys who won't be back IMO: Davis, Morgan, Moss. And you save a lot of money not bringing them back too.

Hakeem Nicks is such a curious case. One thing is for sure, he's going to be a hell of a lot cheaper now. Talent is still there, but is the heart? Add that to the injury history and I can't see anyone giving him a lot of money.

Jimmy Graham is going to get more money than Gronk (rightfully so). With so many ex-basketball guys popping up everywhere (seemingly) I'd rather try to get a poor man's version to pair with Reed than invest that much in Graham.

[darrelgreenie]

Well, though it's the exact same unit, exact same coaching staff, they're not the same offense as last year. They've been utterly terrible. We're simply lucky to string together a couple first downs in the first half of a game now. I don't think you can put that on just the coaches...

Last year's offense was so successful because RGIII was spectacularly good. He hasn't been this year. Some of the offensive concepts we ran so successfully might never work the same again. Relying on him to sustain the offense like we did last year is an untenable situation.

 Welp gotta disagree with here bro. When the personnel remains the same but the level of performance/production from that unit drops imho its exactly a coaching problem. Again the production from the offense last year is undeniable and again you know the numbers. There is no way around it. They were a highly productive unit despite major injuries.

 

Part of Griffin's spectular play was scheme driven (like with any QB). But I disagree completely that the offensive concepts from last year won't work though. The concepts were fundamentally sound imo its all about sequence; not which plays but when. And thats all about coaching. Gameplan/playcalling/play design. I'm not sure what you mean schematically 'relying' on Griffin (i.e. running?) but relying on a superstar QB is pretty much how most offenses are built. They rely on their QB/or other star player to be the 'lead dog' so to speak. 

 

Two years ago Kyle Shanahan noted how the offense had no playmakers....

I don't think that was doing enough personnel-wise to add playmakers and difference makers. I think we still lack these types of players throughout the offense, and that the only way we're going to find and add more of them is to spend some money and some decent draft picks on guys with remarkable talent. Maybe bring in some top tier athletes at WR and TE and on the OL.

 

 

You know I put very little stock into this regimes comments to the media about the team. I wasn't onboard with the Garcon/Morgan because I didn't agree that was the weakness of the team. But that's neither here nor there.

And you know how I feel about 'playmakers'. Playmakers emerge they have to develop organically within your system a 'playmaker' can't be designated.

 

I think I might have overreacted to last Sunday's game in comparing the D to the O.

Agreed.

 

I think if you found a better coach, added one elite DE, found some passable starting safeties, and replaced Fletcher with an excellent player, you're work would basically be done on D.... And I think it should be pretty inexpensive to find acceptable safeties......

I think it'll be harder and take longer to fix the problems on offense, where I think finding significant upgrades to the WR/TE and OL groups is both necessary and difficult.

Everything above is a tall task. Lets table the coaching issue and agree that any coach will be better with more talented players?

Finding an elite DE is resource intensive.

Finding good SAF is resource intensive.

Finding a ILB similar to Fletch (would be a luxury not a need imo) is resource intensive.

 

I think the build of our 34 is fundamentally flawed. I don't think we're good enough in our base defense to stop the run without building an 8 man box and our base look lacks push/penetration from the DL. Our best DL in that regard is imho playing out of place at NT and his skills only show up sub packages when he's not playing base NT.

 

Now compare that to the offensive side of the ball. On offense we're just a little better coordination to be a top offensive unit again.

 

I think we're going to need to spend some money/decent draft picks on offense this offseason. I do not want to stand pat with this group going into next season.

 

Again, I don't think anyone advocates standing pat. And ultimately I think a team should build a team based on the talent that comes to them in the draft as opposed to chasing talent to build a certain type of team. I believe good coaching staff adjust their schemes to talent.

 

But, for our discussion lets say there is an offensive player and a defensive player with equal grades when we pick, for me-a tie would go to defensive.