Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***


RonArtest15

Recommended Posts

Exactly what heavy, complete criticism did LeBron face before The Decision?  He got some flack for losing to Boston and "quitting" on his team in the middle of a close out game but before then it was all "OMG he scored the Cavs last 25 points vs. Detroit!".  He got not more flack than any other star player got in the league unless we're specifically discussing Skip Bayless.  Nothing compared to after the 2011 Finals or after The Decision.

 

I was following the NBA long before LeBron was relevant and as far as ES goes I was on here nightly posting when the Wiz discussions actually took place in the Wizards section of ES when it was just a few of us.

Lebron got criticized for losing to the Magic in 2009 and not shaking hands with anyone. A series he averaged 42 ppg.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't care that Wade didn't perform, I don't care that Lebron wasn't aggressive early on. 

 

The Heat didn't lose that game, the Spurs won it. 

 

The Spurs have beat the Heat by an average of slightly over 18 points a game. They are a good team. Screw all this, if Lebron did this, or Wade did that. What we need to say is Diaw did this, Mills did that, Parker did a little of, Ginobili threw in a bit of, etc. 

 

Agreed. Think the Spurs deserve more credit here. If they just sneaking by and winning games, then sure you can play the what if game. But the Spurs have been by far the better team in this whole series. They've clearly outplayed the Heat and it isn't even close. The Spurs are a couple of missed free throws away from this series ending in a sweep. They just seem to want it more than Miami.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lebron got criticized for losing to the Magic in 2009 and not shaking hands with anyone. A series he averaged 42 ppg.

 

That is not unprecedented.  Didn't Isiah get criticized for the same thing vs. Magic?  And even some thought Dirk walking off the court right after winning was classless (of course they are dumb).  So again, his criticism before The Decision was no worse than the criticism every star player gets.  My point wasn't that he was never criticized.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LKB is this reminiscent of the Celtics in 1987?  After a fourth trip to the Finals it just got to be too much.

 

It's very reminiscent, except the big problem for that Celtic team was its utter lack of bench. The '86 team had a re-energized Walton and former all star Scott Wedman as the 6th and 7th men.

 

The '87 team was relying on Greg Kite and Fred Roberts.

 

That lack of bench trickled down. Bird, Parish, and Johnson played ungodly minutes. Kevin McHale played the entire playoffs on a broken foot that still causes him a limp.

 

I remember watching that Finals at a friends house and feeling sad because I liked the Celtics and hated the Lakers and thought that series was going to be a sweep. The Celtics got it to 6, and it probably should have gone 7.

 

But they were done as a real force after that. They got to the '88 ECF and Detroit just steamrolled them. Bird never really played a meaningful playoff game after that.

 

I don't think the Heat are that far gone. Bird was physically finished by the time he had his foot surgeries in '89. I don't see Lebron being done in two years, do you? Bosh still seems to be healthy and had a great season. Wade is declining, but I don't think he is "finished." And they have a better brain trust than an aging Red Auerbach (who had really lost the pulse of the league by that point) and Jimmy Freaking Rodgers.  And there are no Bad Boys Pistons or Jordan's Bulls rising in the East.

 

The Heat could just come back with the same group and still be favored to make the Finals out of the East.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. Screw all this, if Lebron did this, or Wade did that. What we need to say is Diaw did this, Mills did that, Parker did a little of, Ginobili threw in a bit of, etc. 

 

GoT_joffrey_approves.gif

 

 

Who cares what Lebron and Wade have to say?  They just got their asses whooped.  I wanna hear from Patty Mills!. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LeBron is far enough along in his career for us to know him as a performer, especially in high pressure situations.  Past comparisons to the All Timers aren't that flattering to LeBron.  He is simply not the competitor that Jordan, Russell, Bird, Magic, etc. were.

 

That's idiotic. I'm sorry. It is.

 

I watched every Larry Bird playoff game from 1983 to the end of his career. He never had a game like game 6 against the Celtics. And he may never have had a game like Game 7 of the 2013 Finals.

 

He had dozens of great games. But he had a bunch of mediocre ones too.

 

He wasn't even the MVP of his first Finals appearance. Can you imagine what social media would have done to Bird by 1983? One finals win where he wasn't the MVP and a bunch of playoff flops.

 

He would have been redeemed by '84....when we would have uttlerly savaged Magic. Choker, Coach-killer Tragic Johnson. Why doesn't he just give the ball to Kareem and shut up?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's idiotic. I'm sorry. It is.

 

I watched every Larry Bird playoff game from 1983 to the end of his career. He never had a game like game 6 against the Celtics. And he may never have had a game like Game 7 of the 2013 Finals.

 

He had dozens of great games. But he had a bunch of mediocre ones too.

 

He wasn't even the MVP of his first Finals appearance. Can you imagine what social media would have done to Bird by 1983? One finals win where he wasn't the MVP and a bunch of playoff flops.

 

He would have been redeemed by '84....when we would have uttlerly savaged Magic. Choker, Coach-killer Tragic Johnson. Why doesn't he just give the ball to Kareem and shut up?

 

I don't think it would've have been as bad because Bird was only in his second year in 1981 plus they still won the championship.  He probably should've been Finals MVP in 1981 despite his poor shooting.  If LeBron had never done The Decision, the flack he gets really wouldn't be as bad as it is.  It'd still be bad though.  I'm not saying it's fair, I'm saying that's what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily agree with this. Not about the culture, but about these guys finding roles elsewhere. The Spurs take guys no one wants and turns them into effective parts of the machine.

 

There was no demand for Patty Mills. He was the 10th man on an average Portland team, and they had no real interest in bringing him back. If the Spurs didn't sign him, he is probably playing pro ball in Australia now.

 

Boris Diaw was on a trajectory out of the league. He went from big contributer to forgotten man to trade bait in Phoenix. He did nothing except get fat in Charlotte. He probably still be in the league if San Antionio didn't sign him, because he is talented. But we'd see him once a year on NBATV and say, "What the hell happened to that guy?" And now, he is murdering the freaking Heat.

 

Danny Green was waived by Cleveland. And then the Spurs sent him to the D-League. He can only do two things in basketball. Hit threes and stop transition layups. (By the way, he is the greatest one on one transition defender I've ever seen. It's amazing). I am a better dribbler than he is. Yet, here he is murdering the Heat.

 

Three guys. All cut by other teams. One fat. One who can't dribble. And they are all making massive contributions to a team that is probably going to win a title.

 

I want to pat myself on the back because I saw value in Patty Mills two or three years ago and called for the Wizards to sign him.  I saw a little dynamo at PG that could shoot the lights out from 3.  And then soon after that I think he had a really good Olympics and I thought he was going to get paid.  And he didn't!  He signed with the Spurs again for chump change.  NBA teams can be so myopic sometimes.  The ONLY reason they overlooked Patty Mills is his height.

 

Danny Green is a great shooter and yes, he's a terrific transition defender (John Wall is better at this though, trust me.  There can't another guard in the game that's successfully defended as many 1 on 2s and 1 on 3s over the past four years than John).  He's also been drinking the water in SA and that's a good thing.  Mark Jackson made a point of it last night that I really liked: Green got yanked by Pop for making mistakes and then got yelled at and he never for a minute got down or sulky.  He was up congratulating teammates before anyone.  He gets it.

 

Speaking of which, did anyone else notice the sequence when Tony Douglas came in and, I think, fouled Ginobli?  They collided and ended up somewhere around the scorer's table or first row?  It looked pretty nasty.  And it seemed a bit like Spoelstra put a goon in to hard foul Ginobli.  After it happened a Spur IMMEDIATELY ran over and pulled Ginobli up and dusted him off and they trotted down the court all business.  The Miami guy just laid their on the floor, no one went to help him up at all.  Instead Miami's leaders were complaining to the refs, just awful body language.

 

Another sequence that stood out was after Kawhi went for that massive poster dunk on Birdman and got fouled.  After the play was over, Birdman bumped Kawhi kind of hard on his way to the FT line and Kawhi didn't even flinch.  Just totally ignored it.  Totally focused and above the fray.  It was emblematic.  The Spurs simply will not be intimidated by Miami.  If anything, they're the ones bullying Miami.

 

The Spurs want it more.  They're a better team even though they aren't more talented.

 

Teambuilding-wise, SA understands the value of shooting no doubt.  They've got Mills and Green and Bonner and Bellinelli.  Ginobs can shoot.  They taught Kawhi how to shoot almost immediately, that's pretty special.  A player with hands that big that couldn't shoot at all coming out of college?  They've got even more shooters in reserve.  They drafted a Euro kid in 2011 in the second round named Davis Bertans who I liked specifically because he was a 6'10 natural shooter.  They've got shooters waiting in the wings for when their current ones get too expensive or start to lose it.  Why in the hell pay 7 million dollars annually for four years for JJ Redick or OJ Mayo or Kyle Korver?  San Antonio certainly won't.  That's how you run a team.

 

Of course shooters also have to be fed the ball in a system that works with all the other playmakers in place to make it go.  And that's a luxury SA has enjoyed for a long time.  It's a testament to their whole organization.  RC Buford and Popovich on down.  They get all the pieces to the puzzle in place at the same time, which most teams can't/don't do.

 

Still, a guy that's as good a shooter as Bellinelli could thrive just as well individually in Los Angeles, Houston, Golden State, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Miami, or even Washington.  He's sacrificing his PT for SA because he knows they're the best and give him the best chance to win a ring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you should rate LeBron's contribution this series largely depends on how you rate him in the scope of history...

You're rating him as a guy whose better/likely to be better than Jordan and/or The GOAT, or even a "top 3 ever" type? Then you can't have 22 points in game 3, largely being irrelevant in the second half. You can't have 9 points in a half coming off a blowout loss and where your team is going down by 20 again. Yes, the run in the 3rd last night was good; but it was way too late and after the team was clearly deflated. For someone whose supposed to be, or on his way to be, the Greatest of All Time you just cannot have an average or even just above average finals for a star. For someone whose being compared, and some suggest has surpassed, Jordan then you can't seemingly disappear during finals games (Let alone having this happen for the 3rd of such finals).

You're rating him as a guy whose the best basketball player on the planet and a "top 50" guy, but not a top 5 or 10 of all time at this point? Then he's having a pretty good finals. Nothing to write home about, and with some bad moments, but overall he's putting up good stats and basically won one of the games for his team.

The problem is that a lot of people viewed as "haters" are arguing their point in a way that its meant to counter those who constantly push LeBron in the "GOAT" discussion, not in a way that's supposed to counter what's expected of your average superstar. Dirk Nowitski has a finals like this and no one would complain. Clyde Drexler has a finals like this and no one would complain. Patrick Ewing or Reggie Miller have a finals like this and no one would complain. Jason Kidd or Keving Garnett or Dwight Howard have a finals like this and no one would complain. Because they haven't or hadn't had people droning on and on with comparisons to Jordan and claims of potential GOAT status, so they're not held to the same standard.

And rightfully so.

I heard JP on the junks today crying about how this team is like Cleveland and poor LeBron that he has no one around him. One, the notion he has no talent around him is bunk. There's all kinds of arguments for why they may not be producing right now, but it's just not honest to suggest there's not talent there. Second, this is the team LEBRON largely helped create. HE choose to get together with two budies and form a team with three mega contracts, leaving a room for low contract role players. You can't pull the "team" argument that was used in Cleveland because that was a scenario that LeBron was brought into outside of his choice. Here in Miami it is a creation largely of his doing...if it's failing that's not a legitimate excuse for him as it relates to the discussion of his potential place as a top 3 to 5 guy of all time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don't understand the discussion centering on Lebron. He's been good this series and if you need him to be super human every game you're lying to yourself about how great a Magic, Bird, and Jordan were each and every game. The story, for Miami, is one of defense, role players, and under utilizing Bosh. Wade had one really bad game but he's been good this entire post season so I'm not going to lose my mind over it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Still, a guy that's as good a shooter as Bellinelli could thrive just as well individually in Los Angeles, Houston, Golden State, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Miami, or even Washington.  He's sacrificing his PT for SA because he knows they're the best and give him the best chance to win a ring.

 

Bellinelli could find work elsewhere. I don't think Bonner could. The Spurs seem to be unique in being able to hide the many many flaws of their role players.

 

(And, in fairness, Miami has some pretty amazing role players who have been doing great work for little money for years. Let's not turn this into the Selfless Spurs versus the Selfish Heat because of two games. Series get out of hand all the time. Seasons can get out of hand. The 2010 Celtics didn't exactly cover themselves in glory during that regular season and nearly won the Finals).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's idiotic. I'm sorry. It is.

 

I watched every Larry Bird playoff game from 1983 to the end of his career. He never had a game like game 6 against the Celtics. And he may never have had a game like Game 7 of the 2013 Finals.

 

He had dozens of great games. But he had a bunch of mediocre ones too.

 

He wasn't even the MVP of his first Finals appearance. Can you imagine what social media would have done to Bird by 1983? One finals win where he wasn't the MVP and a bunch of playoff flops.

 

He would have been redeemed by '84....when we would have uttlerly savaged Magic. Choker, Coach-killer Tragic Johnson. Why doesn't he just give the ball to Kareem and shut up?

Imagine if there was twitter back in the 1981 Finals when Bird put up back to back 8 point games?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you should rate LeBron's contribution this series largely depends on how you rate him in the scope of history...

You're rating him as a guy whose better/likely to be better than Jordan and/or The GOAT, or even a "top 3 ever" type? Then you can't have 22 points in game 3, largely being irrelevant in the second half. You can't have 9 points in a half coming off a blowout loss and where your team is going down by 20 again.

 

Yes, you can. Sure you can.

 

I quoted this earlier this week, but it's worth pointing out:

 

 Particularly invisible during the 12 hellish minutes of the third period was a blond guy with a wispy mustache, rumored to be the game's best player—name of Larry Bird. Bird missed his first four shots of the period before finally making a layup, but more to the point, he barely touched the ball when he wasn't shooting it. Sure, part of the time he was being covered by a piece of human flypaper called Michael Cooper, but in a curiously inefficient performance. Bird finished with just 16 points, 6 of those coming in the final, meaningless minutes of the game. "I was off the first half [3 of 8 from the floor], but that hasn't necessarily been a bad sign for us," said Bird. "So I didn't come out trying to take over the game in the third period. Then, when we got down by 10 or 12, I thought maybe I should start scoring. But by that time we were out of our offense and couldn't seem to get back in."

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1066096/index.htm

 

During a 30-12 Laker run in the 3rd Quarter of a deciding game in the Finals, Larry Bird did nothing.

 

Clearly, he sucked and was a choker and had no leadership skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the Heat are that far gone. Bird was physically finished by the time he had his foot surgeries in '89. I don't see Lebron being done in two years, do you? Bosh still seems to be healthy and had a great season. Wade is declining, but I don't think he is "finished." And they have a better brain trust than an aging Red Auerbach (who had really lost the pulse of the league by that point) and Jimmy Freaking Rodgers.  And there are no Bad Boys Pistons or Jordan's Bulls rising in the East.

 

The Heat could just come back with the same group and still be favored to make the Finals out of the East.

No the Heat aren't in that kind of desperate situation. LeBron and Bosh still have years left and Wade could too if he makes some important changes. Bosh is a finesse based player with a lean, healthy looking build. He should be able to remain effective for years. Who knows how long Allen can play for?

Their braintrust might be better than a really old Red Auerbach, but I don't necessarily trust Pat Riley to build the team the right way moving forward. Talk of chasing Carmelo should make that clear. If Miami is going to take the next step of moving into a SA like phase of sustained excellence, they're going to have to convince Wade and Bosh that they are true role players, not stars, and not just because they graciously take a back seat to LeBron. And they're going to have to take paycuts, Wade into the 8-9 million a year range, Bosh into the 10 or 11 million a year range. And then Miami is going to have to go about finding undervalued young talent and developing it, and not just count on aging former All Stars going ring chasing signing vet min contracts for a year or two to fill out their team.

Also, don't sleep on the Wizards :D. May not seem like it now, but they've got some Bad Boys Pistons in them.

Toronto is also building a pretty nice team. And Chicago could get right back in it with a Melo signing and/or a reasonably good return from Rose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine if there was twitter back in the 1981 Finals when Bird put up back to back 8 point games?

 

Wouldn't have been nearly as bad as LeBron is getting now because Bird was only a sophomore.  If this was 2004, LeBron's criticism would be 1/10th of what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

He wasn't even the MVP of his first Finals appearance. Can you imagine what social media would have done to Bird by 1983? One finals win where he wasn't the MVP and a bunch of playoff flops.

Probably not a ton comparitive to what's going on with Lebron...nor should he have 2 years in? Are you actually trying to imply he'd have gotten similar trashing that LeBron's gets?

Bird won a championship in his second year in the league. He didn't get the MVP, but still managed as a second year player to pull better than a 20 pt / 10 reb 15 pts / 15 rb / 7 ast average throughout those finals. He took his team to the Conference Championship in his first and 3rd year.

So by the start of the 1983 season you're looking at a 3 year player who was Rookie of the year, helped lead his team to the conference finals twice, helped lead his team to the NBA finals once, and finished with 22 pts / 14 rb a double double average in said finals. Did he have two poor scoring games that finals? Yes. But I don't think there were significant discussions of being the GOAT for Larry Bird in his second year in the league. The expectations were, rightly, not there at that time.

And we're supposed to act like that would've garnered the same kind of reaction that LeBron's during a similar tenure? LeBron's team missed the playoffs his first year. Then missed it his second year. Then lost in the Conference Semi's in his third year.

Or what? Are we supposed to be thinking that social media would be treating bird in his THIRD YEAR the same way they treat LeBron in his ELEVENTH?

(Edited because it was pointed out to me that I had read some of my info wrong)

Edited by ZRagone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you should rate LeBron's contribution this series largely depends on how you rate him in the scope of history...

You're rating him as a guy whose better/likely to be better than Jordan and/or The GOAT, or even a "top 3 ever" type? Then you can't have 22 points in game 3, largely being irrelevant in the second half. You can't have 9 points in a half coming off a blowout loss and where your team is going down by 20 again. Yes, the run in the 3rd last night was good; but it was way too late and after the team was clearly deflated. For someone whose supposed to be, or on his way to be, the Greatest of All Time you just cannot have an average or even just above average finals for a star. For someone whose being compared, and some suggest has surpassed, Jordan then you can't seemingly disappear during finals games (Let alone having this happen for the 3rd of such finals).

You're rating him as a guy whose the best basketball player on the planet and a "top 50" guy, but not a top 5 or 10 of all time at this point? Then he's having a pretty good finals. Nothing to write home about, and with some bad moments, but overall he's putting up good stats and basically won one of the games for his team.

The problem is that a lot of people viewed as "haters" are arguing their point in a way that its meant to counter those who constantly push LeBron in the "GOAT" discussion, not in a way that's supposed to counter what's expected of your average superstar. Dirk Nowitski has a finals like this and no one would complain. Clyde Drexler has a finals like this and no one would complain. Patrick Ewing or Reggie Miller have a finals like this and no one would complain. Jason Kidd or Keving Garnett or Dwight Howard have a finals like this and no one would complain. Because they haven't or hadn't had people droning on and on with comparisons to Jordan and claims of potential GOAT status, so they're not held to the same standard.

And rightfully so.

I heard JP on the junks today crying about how this team is like Cleveland and poor LeBron that he has no one around him. One, the notion he has no talent around him is bunk. There's all kinds of arguments for why they may not be producing right now, but it's just not honest to suggest there's not talent there. Second, this is the team LEBRON largely helped create. HE choose to get together with two budies and form a team with three mega contracts, leaving a room for low contract role players. You can't pull the "team" argument that was used in Cleveland because that was a scenario that LeBron was brought into outside of his choice. Here in Miami it is a creation largely of his doing...if it's failing that's not a legitimate excuse for him as it relates to the discussion of his potential place as a top 3 to 5 guy of all time.

 

Do you really think Jordan never failed? Never had a bad game? Was never criticized?

 

Game 1 of the '91 Finals. The Bulls lost despite Jordan's 40. Jordan "Dominated the ball" and "didn't trust his teammates." Magic "knew how to get everyone involved" and was "a leader."

 

Anyone remember Game 6 of the '92 Finals? The Bulls lousy bench triggered erased a 15 point deficit in the 4th Quarter as Jordan watched. Granted, he played well down the stretch, but he needed bailed out to avoid a Game 7.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Probably not much? Are you actually trying to imply he'd have gotten similar trashing that LeBron's gets?

Bird won a championship in his second year in the league. He didn't get the MVP, but still managed as a second year player to pull better than a 20 pt / 10 reb average throughout those finals. He took his team to the Conference Championship in his first and 3rd year.

So by the start of the 1983 season you're looking at a 3 year player who was Rookie of the year, helped lead his team to the conference finals twice, helped lead his team to the NBA finals once, and finished with 22 pts / 14 rb average in said finals.

And we're supposed to act like that would've garnered the same kind of reaction that LeBron's during a similar tenure? LeBron's team missed the playoffs his first year. Then missed it his second year. Then lost in the Conference Semi's in his third year.

Or what? Are we supposed to be thinking that social media would be treating bird in his THIRD YEAR the same way they treat LeBron in his ELEVENTH?

 

Bird averaged 15/15/7 in the 81 Finals, not 22/14.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Probably not much? Are you actually trying to imply he'd have gotten similar trashing that LeBron's gets?

Bird won a championship in his second year in the league. He didn't get the MVP, but still managed as a second year player to pull better than a 20 pt / 10 reb average throughout those finals. He took his team to the Conference Championship in his first and 3rd year.

 

 

Lebron has played in 4 straight Finals, has 4 MVPS, and 2 straight titles.

 

And he is being killed. Murdered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know the average age of the posters on this thread, but a lot of you seem to be talking about mythical creatures when you discuss Magic, Bird, and Jordan. I was actually arguing about them at a 7th grade lunch table.

 

And I hated Jordan in '86 and '87. Hated him. Hated all the bandwagon kids in my West Virginia middle school who were wearing Bulls gear. They were not true-die hards. Like me a Celtics fan who had never been to New England or my best friend, a Lakers fan who had never been west of Ohio. We knew the game.

 

And what I knew was this - white guy hustle and gym rat grit always won in the end. I liked the Boston Celtics, Penn State Nittany Lions and the Indiania Hoosiers. It's really amazing that I did not grow up to be a Tea Partier. Jordan was a ball hog who didn't realize that the key to basketball was the pass, not the shot. He was never...NEVER!!...going to win a title. I probably still need to pay off a bunch of bets I made in '87 and '88.

 

You know who was going to win a title? Danny Manning. I loved Danny Manning. Now that was a guy with a haircut you could set your watch to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bellinelli could find work elsewhere. I don't think Bonner could. The Spurs seem to be unique in being able to hide the many many flaws of their role players.

 

(And, in fairness, Miami has some pretty amazing role players who have been doing great work for little money for years. Let's not turn this into the Selfless Spurs versus the Selfish Heat because of two games. Series get out of hand all the time. Seasons can get out of hand. The 2010 Celtics didn't exactly cover themselves in glory during that regular season and nearly won the Finals).

Bonner probably wouldn't anymore. He barely works in San Antonio. They do have a knack for hiding guys with problems, specifically on defense. A lot of that is because Duncan has provided a Bill Russell effect for almost 20 years now. But it's even more than that. SA is the best at putting the puzzle pieces together. And they really do have a special culture that gets guys to buy in and compete 100%.

About Miami's role players, they are good. I think their problems now are more about what their leaders are doing. But even so, it's not the same thing as what the SA guys do. SA's guys are fringe players who are young, guys THEY discovered for the most part, who have never had a big pay day. Miami's role players are mostly old guys, many of whom have had max or near max contracts before, who don't need any more money, and are just trying to chase a ring before they retire. Most of them are still mercenaries, they've just already been paid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...