***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[CrypticVillain]

You see this map, and think to yourself, "Hmm... I thought the Heat had a huge bandwagon." Well they do, but this picture is a representation of the people who are tired of the Heat bandwagon fans...

 

[Going Commando]

Awful...and heartbreaking.  I've been following the story for the past day or two, and the guy responsible for these stabbings is potentially linked to another that happened near by.  Just tragic.  SMH. 

 

The father (I was reading) of the 6 year old boy said he recognized the man instantly when he saw the sketch.  The man is homeless and schizophrenic - not sure if I spelled it right.  Hopefully he's caught soon.

Jeez. It's a really repugnant crime.

Makes me think about just how vulnerable our society is to people with schizophrenia and other psychotic mental illnesses. We are totally unable to deal with them. If they don't have a strong family with resources and the grit to handle their illness, they'll end up just getting aborted by society. Live of the streets. Get killed mostly. Or in the worst cases, kill someone else.

Yesterday I saw a crazy woman standing by a coffee shop, in a public square. She was pantomiming a bizarre and elaborate set of gestures to the window in the coffee shop. Laughing to herself. She was elderly looking, didn't look healthy or very clean. It was really disturbing. I had no idea what to do. I ended up just driving away. Hardly anyone in the area even seemed to notice her.

She's not the only crazy person I've noticed in that square either. Like a year ago, twice I saw this one poor and unhealthy looking woman singing at the top of her lungs. Gesturing wildly like she was Gene Kelly or something in her mind. I had no idea what to do then either. My immediate thought it that they're totally unpredictable and might be dangerous and I won't mess around with them.

[Going Commando]

If the basketball Gods were just, Phoenix and Cleveland would swap places in the lottery. I would have loved to see what Phoenix could have done with Wiggins in particular.

[Going Commando]

Both Ginobli and Wade are playing so much better than they were last year. It makes this Finals more interesting.

But on the whole, SA is better this year and I think Miami is worse. Leonard's better. Splitter is better. Danny Green is probably a little better. Diaw in the last series was a legit weapon off the bench once he found his range. Mills and Bellinelli are solid. SA is way deeper, the only potential issue is the Parker ankle.

But they look like they're on a mission.

[Destino]

the problem is Lebron got killed in Cleveland too. He got blamed for averaging 40 ppg in that series against Orlando.

 

Right... so he left.  Moral of the story is that the way to overcome a team that can't get over the hump is to leave and join a much better and more talented team.  That's what I meant when I said that Lebron killed that argument.  There is no expectation of simply staying in place and willing a team to victory.  If the GM can't build a winner around Durant, that's the GM's fault not Durants.  That's what we've all concluded about Lebron's move to Miami and thus it would be silly to pretend old arguments are still valid.  

Edited June 3, 2014 by Destino

[Destino]

Both Ginobli and Wade are playing so much better than they were last year. It makes this Finals more interesting.

But on the whole, SA is better this year and I think Miami is worse. Leonard's better. Splitter is better. Danny Green is probably a little better. Diaw in the last series was a legit weapon off the bench once he found his range. Mills and Bellinelli are solid. SA is way deeper, the only potential issue is the Parker ankle.

But they look like they're on a mission.

 

Splitter lost almost all of his minutes by the end of the series against Miami last year.  I wonder if he'll fall on his face again.  

[PeterMP]

Both Ginobli and Wade are playing so much better than they were last year. It makes this Finals more interesting.

But on the whole, SA is better this year and I think Miami is worse. Leonard's better. Splitter is better. Danny Green is probably a little better. Diaw in the last series was a legit weapon off the bench once he found his range. Mills and Bellinelli are solid. SA is way deeper, the only potential issue is the Parker ankle.

But they look like they're on a mission.

 

Cole and Bosh are both better for the Heat.  Bosh is more of a threat with the 3, and Cole is just an all around better player.  I also think that given the break that both teams are getting and the spacing between games that depth isn't as important as it could be and maybe even should be.

 

If they had to play some games on consecutive days it would matter more.  I guess if there is an injury that would make it more important.

 

I think for the Heat to win they are going to have to get at least one big game from the 3 pt. line from Battier, Bosh, and/or Coles.

Edited June 4, 2014 by PeterMP

[bobbi3stix]

Right... so he left.  Moral of the story is that the way to overcome a team that can't get over the hump is to leave and join a much better and more talented team.  That's what I meant when I said that Lebron killed that argument.  There is no expectation of simply staying in place and willing a team to victory.  If the GM can't build a winner around Durant, that's the GM's fault not Durants.  That's what we've all concluded about Lebron's move to Miami and thus it would be silly to pretend old arguments are still valid.  

 

 

I love that side of the fence that people choose to take. Cleveland's owner thought his franchise was bigger than LeBron. He didn't get him any help, there is nothing more James could have done other than be another Barry Sanders and just retire.

 

James was getting the criticism that Durant is getting the pass on BEFORE the move to Miami.

Edited June 4, 2014 by bobbi3stix

[JoeWolf990]

Right... so he left.  Moral of the story is that the way to overcome a team that can't get over the hump is to leave and join a much better and more talented team.  That's what I meant when I said that Lebron killed that argument.  There is no expectation of simply staying in place and willing a team to victory.  If the GM can't build a winner around Durant, that's the GM's fault not Durants.  That's what we've all concluded about Lebron's move to Miami and thus it would be silly to pretend old arguments are still valid.

preach

[JoeWolf990]

Cole and Bosh are both better for the Heat.

Bosh is more of a threat with the 3

Bosh is absolutely not better this season

And Cole has been his usual inconsistent self.

DWade's play is much better this playoffs than last year.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Right... so he left.  Moral of the story is that the way to overcome a team that can't get over the hump is to leave and join a much better and more talented team.  That's what I meant when I said that Lebron killed that argument.  There is no expectation of simply staying in place and willing a team to victory.  If the GM can't build a winner around Durant, that's the GM's fault not Durants.  That's what we've all concluded about Lebron's move to Miami and thus it would be silly to pretend old arguments are still valid.  

 

Should a player be stuck in a terrible situation forever simply because a computer said that's where you are going to be drafted? Do you think Kevin Love should sign a five-year extension with Minnesota?

 

Everyone forgets that Cleveland was completely capped out when Lebron's free agency came up. They could resign him, but that was it. They had no real assets to trade. They had no cap flexibility. That team was as good as it was going to get.

By the way, I agree with Dan LeBatard: anyone making confident predictions about this series is just posturing.

[bobbi3stix]

Should a player be stuck in a terrible situation forever simply because a computer said that's where you are going to be drafted? Do you think Kevin Love should sign a five-year extension with Minnesota?

 

Everyone forgets that Cleveland was completely capped out when Lebron's free agency came up. They could resign him, but that was it. They had no real assets to trade. They had no cap flexibility. That team was as good as it was going to get.

By the way, I agree with Dan LeBatard: anyone making confident predictions about this series is just posturing.

 

It's not that people forget, they never even looked. They chose to hate a player without any rational reason as shown time and time again. It's futile to make certain types of people give reasonable or objective thought before an opinion is made.

preach

 

so lame.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I wonder how much different the Lebron Cleveland situation would have gone if Boozer hadn't cut out on them for Utah. Probably wouldn't have helped much but he was probably the best offensive help Bron had during his Cleveland run,

[PeterMP]

Bosh is absolutely not better this season

And Cole has been his usual inconsistent self.

DWade's play is much better this playoffs than last year.

 

In the context of their offense, Bosh shot more 3's, a higher percentage of 3's (i.e. a lower percentage of 2's.  He's moved from taking that long 2 to taking the 3), and his FG% on 3's went up.

 

As a result his effective FG% is also up.

 

For them, that's better.  If you look at his stats, the only things he isn't doing as well or better are things related to him being a stretch player this year that's taking and making 3's at a reasonable rate and not a player playing center/closer to the basket (offensive rebounds and blocks).

 

And that's carried through the playoffs too.  He really is a different player this year and better suited for what they need.

 

Cole is inconsistent, but that tends to be the nature of bench players.  Do you really want to claim that Splitter isn't inconsistent?

 

That doesn't mean he's not better though.

 

He's playing more minutes, he's still bringing good defense despite the more minutes, and he's doing a better job of running the offense (his assist/TO ratio is up and his effective FG% is up).

 

Now, he might play really badly in this series, but over all he's better.

 

(Realistically, Bosh might play really badly too.  Bosh isn't the type of 3 pt. shooter where I wouldn't be shocked if he goes 2-21 from 3. pt. land and the Heat lose in 6.)

 

But they are both better.

Edited June 4, 2014 by PeterMP

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I wonder how much different the Lebron Cleveland situation would have gone if Boozer hadn't cut out on them for Utah. Probably wouldn't have helped much but he was probably the best offensive help Bron had during his Cleveland run,

 

That was 2004.

 

What sealed Cleveland's fate, I think, was that 11 player trade in 2008. They ended up with a rapidly declining Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Wally Sczerbiak, and the bipolar Delonte West, who may or may not have done something not so good for team chemistry. That pretty much boxed them into a corner for the rest of Lebron's tenure. Because after that it was just chasing average free agents who were never going to come to Cleveland.

 

They also gave up Drew Gooden and Shannon Brown, who turned out to be cheaper, better, and saner than anyone that they got back.

 

Wallce gave them a 4/7 for a price tag of $15 Million. Sczerbiak was out of the league within 2 years. Joe Smith gave them a 6/3. And Delonte gave them 12 points and not much else for a whole lot of crazy.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[JoeWolf990]

yeah, I dont care about that advanced staff stuff. Bosh has not been better playing further away from the basket. It helps the team more, but not him personally.

so lame.

excuse me?

What don't you agree with in Destino's post?

Should a player be stuck in a terrible situation forever simply because a computer said that's where you are going to be drafted? Do you think Kevin Love should sign a five-year extension with Minnesota?

 

Everyone forgets that Cleveland was completely capped out when Lebron's free agency came up. They could resign him, but that was it. They had no real assets to trade. They had no cap flexibility. That team was as good as it was going to get.

By the way, I agree with Dan LeBatard: anyone making confident predictions about this series is just posturing.

I am confused because I think you and Destino are agreeing with each other.

[Going Commando]

Should a player be stuck in a terrible situation forever simply because a computer said that's where you are going to be drafted? Do you think Kevin Love should sign a five-year extension with Minnesota?

 

Everyone forgets that Cleveland was completely capped out when Lebron's free agency came up. They could resign him, but that was it. They had no real assets to trade. They had no cap flexibility. That team was as good as it was going to get.

By the way, I agree with Dan LeBatard: anyone making confident predictions about this series is just posturing.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Cleveland had cap space that summer and they could have signed two of the big three. The issue was that the big three absolutely wanted to play together and knew they were going to meet up somewhere. And Miami was the only team that could do it because they didn't have to S&T Wade and they could use Bird Rights to keep him at whatever number.

[Going Commando]

I wonder how much different the Lebron Cleveland situation would have gone if Boozer hadn't cut out on them for Utah. Probably wouldn't have helped much but he was probably the best offensive help Bron had during his Cleveland run,

It would have been a huge help. Boozer was an Olympian and an AS big in Utah. Him + LeBron + Big Z could have been the best front court in the game. On par with what the Lakers built. I don't know if they win rings, but they'd have been in it with Boston and LA.

Boozer getting away was a killer. The Larry Hughes deal was the biggest killer though.

[PeterMP]

The two most relevant questions for me going in is can Pop win a game for the Spurs.  Presumably, the Heat are going to be ready for that, we are going to play off and under screens and give Wade and Lebron that 18 ft. jump shot that the Spurs used effectively last year.

 

Can Pop come up with something else after having played the same team last year in the finals that confuses the Heat?

 

And can the Heat, without Miller this year and Battier and Allen a year older, get enough perimeter shooting to make the Spurs pay if they try and help when Wade and Lebron drive?

[JoeWolf990]

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Cleveland had cap space that summer and they could have signed two of the big three. The issue was that the big three absolutely wanted to play together and knew they were going to meet up somewhere. And Miami was the only team that could do it because they didn't have to S&T Wade and they could use Bird Rights to keep him at whatever number.

Cleveland were capped out. They had the Jamison contract as well for 2 more seasons.

The big reason was that no one wants to live in Cleveland, and the Cavs did a bad job of building around dude.

[PeterMP]

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Cleveland had cap space that summer and they could have signed two of the big three. The issue was that the big three absolutely wanted to play together and knew they were going to meet up somewhere. And Miami was the only team that could do it because they didn't have to S&T Wade and they could use Bird Rights to keep him at whatever number.

 

Cleveland had very little cap space.  Not enough to sign a big FA.  There was talk about a sign and trade between Cleveland and Toronto.  Cleveland has a set of expiring contracts that were thought to have value.

 

But the consensus was that Bosh didn't want to go to Cleveland or Toronto might have decided to just let Bosh walk without taking a bunch of bad contracts for a year.

[Going Commando]

Cleveland were capped out. They had the Jamison contract as well for 2 more seasons.

The big reason was that no one wants to live in Cleveland, and the Cavs did a bad job of building around dude.

Yeah but you don't have to live in Cleveland. You're on the road a ton during the season, then you can live where ever you want after it's over. If LeBron stays in Cleveland and they had cap space to sign another superstar, LeBron alone would have been enough to draw someone.

I didn't realize they couldn't get a second member of the big 3. The issue wasn't Cleveland the city, it was the lack of flexibility on the poorly constructed roster.

[JoeWolf990]

Yeah but you don't have to live in Cleveland. You're on the road a ton during the season, then you can live where ever you want after it's over. If LeBron stays in Cleveland and they had cap space to sign another superstar, LeBron alone would have been enough to draw someone.

I didn't realize they couldn't get a second member of the big 3. The issue wasn't Cleveland the city, it was the lack of flexibility on the poorly constructed roster.

nah, it was Cleveland the city, then the roster. Shaq was the biggest FA Cleveland ever signed.

BUt cap space was big, along with a roster that was just a mess. I was mad at Lebron for leaving Cleveland, mostly because of how he pooped on the Wizards every playoffs. BUt the more time I get away -- really since they lost in 2011 -- I cant fault his decision at all. I dont even fault how he did it on TV, and I wouldnt want to play under Dan Gilbert either.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Cleveland had cap space that summer and they could have signed two of the big three. The issue was that the big three absolutely wanted to play together and knew they were going to meet up somewhere. And Miami was the only team that could do it because they didn't have to S&T Wade and they could use Bird Rights to keep him at whatever number.

 

Cleveland didn't have the space to simply sign Bosh (and it was only going to be Bosh since Wade was not leaving Miami for Cleveland). There was talk that they could have done a sign and trade with Toronto that would have netted them Bosh but it would have cost them Verajao, West, Hickson, and a ton of draft picks. That's if Toronto would have agreed to it and if Bosh would have done it - which he didn't want to do. And to be honest, I'm not sure that math really worked out anyway. The source for that seems to be Chris Broussard who has always been pretty sloppy about the details.

 

Cleveland's roster situation was just a mess in 2010. They had Jamison on the books for $13 and $15 million for two more seasons.

 

They actually had Mo Williams on a decent contract for an All-Star guard at about $9 per...except he really wasn't an All Star guard.

 

That team had been chasing fading vets for years as they got desperate to build around Lebron and it really reached a head in the wrong season. They also seemed really incapable of determining whether their own players were good - or whether they were good because they played with Lebron.

nah, it was Cleveland the city, then the roster. Shaq was the biggest FA Cleveland ever signed.

 

 

Shaq wasn't a free agent. That was a trade.

 

The dirty little secret in the NBA is that the northern cities - excluding New York - never get big free agent signings. The biggest free agent in Boston's history remains a washed up Dominique Wilkins. And good players NEVER "force a trade" to the northern cities.

 

Phoenix has had more high profile guys want to go there than Boston and Chicago combined. (Note: I didn't do the math on this).

 

This is a fun game. Name the impact player who forced his way (either by trade demand or free agency) to

 

1. Boston. One. Nique. Garnett had to be convinced to go there. Walton in the 80s was a trade. Pretty much every other Boston star - aside from Ray Allen who was part of a rather sad trade before Garnett came along - was homegrown or traded for very early on in their career.

 

2. Chicago. None. Rodman was a trade and seen as a huge huge gamble at the time. He was self-destructing in San Antonio, and it seemed like he would be out of the league and maybe dead very soon.

 

3. Detroit. Three. Chauncey Billips.That worked out. Ben Gordon and Josh Smith did not. But I don't think either of those guys were really wanted anywhere else. Dumars had a habit of bidding against himself.

 

4. Cleveland. None.

 

5. Milwaukee. None.

 

6. Minnesota. None

 

7. Brookyln. Maybe one in New Jersey. I honestly don't remember all the hoopla around the Kidd-Marbury swap. I was very drunk for a large part of 2000 and 2001. Kidd seemed perenially unhappy at that point.

 

8. Philly.  One for sure. Maybe two. A huge one in Moses. Maybe Mutombo but again I'm fuzzy on the details. I really don't remember a lot fo 2000 and 2001, it seems.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[RonArtest15]

All-NBA Teams:

 

All-NBA 1st Team:

Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Joakim Noah
Chris Paul
James Harden


All-NBA 2nd Team:

Stephen Curry
Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Dwight Howard
Tony Parker


All-NBA 3rd Team:

Al Jefferson
Paul George
LaMarcus Aldridge
Goran Dragic
Damian Lillard

 

No Wall...SMH.  Should have made the squad over Dame Lillard, IMO.