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Jim Haslett : Time For Him To Show Something ?


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Oh no, not another Jim Haslett bash session!

Actually, it isn't.

Yes, there are numerous threads regarding his accomplishments, or lack of, depending on your personal views, and I certainly am not trying to get any suspensions, but being it is off-season, and weighing in the factors of players coming back/ draft picks, etc, I was hoping to engage in a little fair-worded no name calling discussion on this.

Over the last few years, the Redskins defensively have ranked 22nd, 21st, and 21st [points] and 28th, 13th, and 31st in yards. Not stellar by any stretch.

Yes, injuries have plagued the defense, with Orakpo and Meriweather being out most all of the season, and Fletcher isn't exactly a young guy either, but to most of the football world, the focus was on RGIII, with a sprinkle of Morris here and there, which did distract away from the issues at hand.

There is talk of Amerson and Rambo being very helpful in the secondary, and with a hopefully healthy Meriweather, things might appear to be looking good for the secondary. Orakpo, poor guy, can't seem to stay healthy, and everyone's fingers are crossed he'll be full steam ahead this year, along with Kerrigan, making big plays on the outside, it seems all the pieces are falling into place.

So, where does this leave Haslett? Does he deserve a free pass this year, being some players were out last year, or should the scrutiny begin after week 1, barring a defensive gem of a game being played? Honestly, I haven't been a big supporter of his ways, as other posts show, and talk last year of removing him was a heated debate, with points from both sides. Can he manage/improve on the 3-4, and keep the nay-sayers at bay this year, or will the main focus of the team continue to be RGIII and Morris, shadowing the continual issues on defense? Talk of Raheem taking over was mentioned, and that in itself is a conflict, as he himself was under just as much criticism as Haslett was.

I look forward to a great season, and hopefully a defense that will be improved, healthy, and ranking high in the league; if not, there will be alot of turmoil in the locker room, and in the stands...

SIC

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I'll never be one to put Haslett up on a pedestal, but I don't really understand some of the asskickings he takes around here either. I mean, look at his depth chart BEFORE the season last year, then as it went along. Before - Both safety postions set, great D line, capable corners, and near excellent LB's. Then it all went to ****, and the poor guy had to come up with different ways of disguising looks just to keep them in games with all those holes. And even with all the deficiencies, they actually DID get better as the season went along.

Everyone wants to say, "well sure there were a few lost players, but..." Ain't no "but", thats HUUUUUGE and is a major contributing factor. Frankly, I think he did a hell of a job under the circumstances.

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I used to be one of those people that wanted him out of here... but even with all the injuries, the defense wasn't that bad during that seven game run. Shoot, even in the 8th game, they pretty much held the Seahawks defense in check. And that was with an offense who couldn't move the ball. I think Haslett is safe right now. Unless something catastrophic happens or he gets a head coaching gig, he should be here for awhile.

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To answer the question first and foremost, despite his late showing last year, I thought it was best that we move in another direction at DC this season. I feel this will be his last chance and anything beyond top 10 status will seal his fate.

I've never had a problem with him getting a pass because of injuries and such. The reason I've wanted him gone is, I just don't think he calls a good game. I mean, whether it was true or not, when there were rumors that his play calling duties would be are were taken away, that sends up a major red flag in my mind. Joe Gibbs would never have even let a rumor like that start with Richie Petitbone. Ok, I don't want to live in the past as that was not my intent, but here are my reasons for wanting him gone:

1) I think he doesn't call a good game. Too many times have I seen the wrong defense called for a particular formation.

2) I think he doesn't allow his field general (London) enough leeway to change the call.

3) We get dominated right off the bat and I fail to see any adjustments. I think he's stubborn to adjustments.

4) Things like cover zero on 4th and 21 or knowing the WR could throw, yet playing the wrong coverage just reeks in my opinion.

Again, nothing personal against him and I don't hold him accountable for injuries. It's the body of work for me.

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I was never one to call for his head but there were some instances where my heart would not have been broken if he was let go. That being said I thought he did a hell of a job in the second half of the season making what he had left into a respectable defense. Not a good or great one, just enough to keep the team in the game so Robert and the offense could work some magic.

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There can be NO more excuses after the upgrades this past draft an the injured players back. (Which is amusing in itself as the D was far from seller the year prior with both Orakpo and Carriker.).

If he's still the same, uninventive, predictable, career average DC as he's always been; then bring on someone that can fully open up a 34 D in all its playmaking glory.

I shall leave it there, short and sweet, as Haslett not following Smith out if the door is the biggest off season disappointment for me. And I don't want to say something on him I probably shouldn't.

Hail.

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I'll never be one to put Haslett up on a pedestal, but I don't really understand some of the asskickings he takes around here either. I mean, look at his depth chart BEFORE the season last year, then as it went along. Before - Both safety postions set, great D line, capable corners, and near excellent LB's. Then it all went to ****, and the poor guy had to come up with different ways of disguising looks just to keep them in games with all those holes. And even with all the deficiencies, they actually DID get better as the season went along.

Everyone wants to say, "well sure there were a few lost players, but..." Ain't no "but", thats HUUUUUGE and is a major contributing factor. Frankly, I think he did a hell of a job under the circumstances.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. Well put.

I would add that I'm willing to give him a little more rope earlier in the year as far as the secondary goes, but I want it tight as soon as possible. He should know what he needs and he should know how to use it now. This draft was very heavy on defense and we were very lucky with who we got and where we got them (obviously assuming a bit here).

But, I expect him to be here the whole year, and IF he does a good job, I don't expect him to be here next season (2014) because he will be a Head Coach somewhere.... unless, of course, he wants to hang tight a minute and win a ring or two :)

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I know Haslett had injuries last year, and that should be taken into account when you factor how the defense played last year.

However, my main beef with him last year was, on top of not being creative, just how passive and safe he became before we went on that seven game winning streak, and even at parts during it. He made everything so basic to try and help the defense, but our defense would get torched. Even with our injuries, when Haslett threw up his hands and said "**** it; we're gonna blitz every down, and if we get burnt, fine" it seemed like the whole defense responded and turned up the heat.

When he was passive there was no emotion and intensity, because I don't think guys bought in. As a player you know your strengths and weaknesses. Coverage was our weakness, and so dropping the defense into coverage with no pass rush...it almost seemed like the players expected to get torched. Instead of just going out and playing and reacting, it's like you could the whole defense with visible question marks over there head.

Haz is at his best, and frankly at his most creative, when he just lets go. First half versus the Giants at home, passive, passive, passive. London and Perry go to him and basically beg him to get aggressive, they fire up the players, Haslett gets aggressive and we effectively shut their offense down in the second half. First three quarters versus Dallas on Thanksgiving Haz blitzed like nuts, Josh got burnt by Dez, then we get passive and the defense gives up points.

I think Haslett will feel a lot more comfortable having Rak and Carriker back, and hopefully our new DBs can help out. Our game plan versus the Saints look unlike anything I'd ever seen Haslett called, and I hope that's a sign of things to come. But if there's injuries, you can't just shrink back into your hole. The players can tell when you're not confident in their ability to make plays.

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Jim Haslett defenses all time rankings, points allowed as D-Coordinator and Head Coach

1996, DC-New Orleans- 20th overall, 339 points, 3-13 record

1997, DC-Pittsburgh Steelers, 11th overall, 307 points, 11-5 record

1998, DC-Pittsburgh Steelers, 7th overall, 303 points, 7-9 record

1999, DC-Pittsburgh Steelers, 12th overall, 320 points, 6-10 record

2000, HC-New Orleans- 10th overall, 305 points, 10-6 Record

2001, HC-New Orleans- 27th, 409 points, 7-9 record

2002, HC-New Orleans- 26th, 388 points, 9-7 record

2003, HC-New Orleans- 14th, 326 points, 8-8 record

2004, HC-New Orleans- 27th, 405 points, 8-8 record

2005, HC-New Orleans- 28th, 398 points, 3-13 record (Katrina year)

2006, DC-St. Louis- 28th, 381 points, 8-8 record

2007, DC-St. Louis- 31st, 438 points, 3-13 record

2008, DC-St. Louis- 31st, 465 points, 2-14 record

2010, DC-Washington- 21st, 377 points, 6-10 record

2011, DC-Washington- 21st, 367 points, 5-11 record

2012, DC-Washington- 22nd, 388 points, 10-6 record

Personally, I'd say that in Pittsburgh he inherited great players on those later 90s defenses and did a good job with them. In New Orleans he inherited some good players, dropped, made it back up, dropped again. He was the head coach here so his influence cannot be known, but for a defensive minded coach it was a bit erratic. It should also be taken into account that they were playing 2 games per year against the greatest show on turf.

In St.Louis he inherited a mess, didn't change much, and left it a mess.

In DC he inherited a mess, has changed a lot, and hasn't produced very many results yet.

Personally I feel that if the Redskins defense does not improve to the top half of the league this year, Jim Haslett should not be brought back as our defensive coordinator. He is a guy who can have decent success when he has good pieces put in place for him, and who has generally failed when he didn't have such support.

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Haz is middle of the road to me. I'd like to see him be more aggressive overall. We saw that he could get creative when need be. I understand that we have some rookies to bring up to speed. But going into this season w/ a healthy Rak and ample bodies in the secondary. Haz's D should be top ten. There's no reason for the run D to slip. The pass D has to improve.

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I'm not a Haslett fan, but last season was probably the best of his entire career. He lost his pass defense before the first game of the season, then lost the pass rush during the first game. He began manufacturing a rush and a pass defense for the rest of the season. Were they great, NO, but who expected them to be as good as they were?

Who thought Jackson would turn into a legitimate OLB who caught INTs at some of the most crucial times, or who thought we'd be tied for 3rd in the league in INTs as a team while being tied for 23rd in sacks. I think most people thought those would be switched last year when the whole team was still there.

I'm not saying it was a great defensive season, of course not, but as far as being "creative" on defense, last year was not the year to knock Haslett for his lack of game planning. They seemed to change the entire defense from one game to the next last season.

At the beginning of last season, I was all for firing him and letting Morris take over when the year was up, but after what I saw last season, I'm fine with him coming back. I'm not ecstatic or even excited about it and I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but he had his best coaching season last year, so IMO, this is a poorly timed thread, but to each his own.

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Jim Haslett defenses all time rankings, points allowed as D-Coordinator and Head Coach

1996, DC-New Orleans- 20th overall, 339 points, 3-13 record

1997, DC-Pittsburgh Steelers, 11th overall, 307 points, 11-5 record

1998, DC-Pittsburgh Steelers, 7th overall, 303 points, 7-9 record

1999, DC-Pittsburgh Steelers, 12th overall, 320 points, 6-10 record

2000, HC-New Orleans- 10th overall, 305 points, 10-6 Record

2001, HC-New Orleans- 27th, 409 points, 7-9 record

2002, HC-New Orleans- 26th, 388 points, 9-7 record

2003, HC-New Orleans- 14th, 326 points, 8-8 record

2004, HC-New Orleans- 27th, 405 points, 8-8 record

2005, HC-New Orleans- 28th, 398 points, 3-13 record (Katrina year)

2006, DC-St. Louis- 28th, 381 points, 8-8 record

2007, DC-St. Louis- 31st, 438 points, 3-13 record

2008, DC-St. Louis- 31st, 465 points, 2-14 record

2010, DC-Washington- 21st, 377 points, 6-10 record

2011, DC-Washington- 21st, 367 points, 5-11 record

2012, DC-Washington- 22nd, 388 points, 10-6 record

How many times in there did he have a QB worth a **** and an offense that gave him a lead to protect?

I mean, you know who his OC was in New Orleans who put up less than stellar numbers with a crap offense? Mike McCarthey...

-Devil's Advocate

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Would it be fair to say that in some games the offense greatly helped the defense? Having a more ball-controlled offense did give the defense time to rest, as opposed to Rex putting it up for grabs the season before.

There are different indirect factors which IMO did aid the defense; question is, at some point the offense will go into a funk, so will the defense be able to step it up when needed? If they cannot, then the heat will certainly be turned up on him...

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I don't know; one of the reasons that we had that seven-game run was due to the defense.

Shanahan a few days ago:

On where he felt the team needed to improve in the secondary:

“When we started out, we had [brandon] Meriweather and Tanard Jackson as our starters and both guys were out. So anytime you have those two guys at the end of your OTA days, you’re thinking that they’re going to be the starters on your football team. You lose two guys and actually have guys step up. I thought Reed [Doughty] did an excellent job last year, especially at the strong safety position when he was in the box. He played as good as you could ask a guy to play. I think we got better collectively after the bye week with our defense overall. If you take a look at it statistically, both in turnovers and point production, we were actually in the top 10 in point production over the last seven games. So we did improve in that area and guys felt more comfortable in their roles, not only at the safety position, also at the outside linebacker position when Rak [brian Orakpo] went down. So that’s good experience that we’ve got with guys on our football team. Now you look at the addition of these guys and you let them compete. We’ll find out in time. That’s why we’ve got these OTA days, we’ve got these preseason games to evaluate these guys. I also like some of the guys behind them. I thought [Jordan] Pugh did a heck of a job last year. [Devin] Holland came in. We’ve got Meriweather coming off of a ACL. Hopefully he can come back. But we do have some competition and that’s what you’re looking for. You’re looking for depth, so if you do lose some players, you can still find a way to win. We have that now much more than we’ve had in the past.”

Sorry for the large quote, but it does show where we were in terms of the sheer scale of the injuries, coupled with our big defensive improvements.

I'm not a Haslett fan by any means, but credit where credit is due.

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I know Haslett had injuries last year, and that should be taken into account when you factor how the defense played last year.

However, my main beef with him last year was, on top of not being creative, just how passive and safe he became before we went on that seven game winning streak, and even at parts during it. He made everything so basic to try and help the defense, but our defense would get torched. Even with our injuries, when Haslett threw up his hands and said "**** it; we're gonna blitz every down, and if we get burnt, fine" it seemed like the whole defense responded and turned up the heat.

When he was passive there was no emotion and intensity, because I don't think guys bought in. As a player you know your strengths and weaknesses. Coverage was our weakness, and so dropping the defense into coverage with no pass rush...it almost seemed like the players expected to get torched. Instead of just going out and playing and reacting, it's like you could the whole defense with visible question marks over there head.

This is similar to my criticism of Haslett, which is that he should have been consistently bringing blitzes much, much sooner than he did. Our patchwork of a pass defense came together toward the end of the season precisely because we sent a five-man rush on nearly every passing down. To his credit, he eventually started defaulting to blitzes, but only after it had been patently clear for some time that our four-man rush wasn't generating pressure and that holes in our secondary were getting exploited as a result.

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Sorry for the large quote, but it does show where we were in terms of the sheer scale of the injuries, coupled with our big defensive improvements.

I'm not a Haslett fan by any means, but credit where credit is due.

That's kind of where I am at as well. I'm not a huge fan of his, but he got the shaft last season. I'm as guilty as anyone for pre-determining punishment. I wouldn't have lost a minute of sleep if he'd left this season, but continuity is as important as anything.

This season he's got a lot of toys to play with, and like I said, he get's the first 4-5 games to have one or two "uh-oh" moments a game, but that **** better be locked tight by week 6... especially with an early bye week.

---------- Post added May-7th-2013 at 04:07 PM ----------

I think Haslett will feel a lot more comfortable having Rak and Carriker back, and hopefully our new DBs can help out. Our game plan versus the Saints look unlike anything I'd ever seen Haslett called, and I hope that's a sign of things to come. But if there's injuries, you can't just shrink back into your hole. The players can tell when you're not confident in their ability to make plays.

And give them reps to improve a la Rob Jackson. Trust the guys you picked to be on the team. He got much better on 3rd down as he got more reps. Here's a guy who has played second and third fiddle to Orakpo, Carter, Kerrigan, Daniels, etc his whole time here... let him get his feet wet before you freak out and put a guy like Chris Wilson in there.

But I digress. Good post, NLC.

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Oh no, not another Jim Haslett bash session!

Actually, it isn't.

Yes, there are numerous threads regarding his accomplishments, or lack of, depending on your personal views, and I certainly am not trying to get any suspensions, but being it is off-season, and weighing in the factors of players coming back/ draft picks, etc, I was hoping to engage in a little fair-worded no name calling discussion on this.

Over the last few years, the Redskins defensively have ranked 22nd, 21st, and 21st [points] and 28th, 13th, and 31st in yards. Not stellar by any stretch.

Yes, injuries have plagued the defense, with Orakpo and Meriweather being out most all of the season, and Fletcher isn't exactly a young guy either, but to most of the football world, the focus was on RGIII, with a sprinkle of Morris here and there, which did distract away from the issues at hand.

There is talk of Amerson and Rambo being very helpful in the secondary, and with a hopefully healthy Meriweather, things might appear to be looking good for the secondary. Orakpo, poor guy, can't seem to stay healthy, and everyone's fingers are crossed he'll be full steam ahead this year, along with Kerrigan, making big plays on the outside, it seems all the pieces are falling into place.

So, where does this leave Haslett? Does he deserve a free pass this year, being some players were out last year, or should the scrutiny begin after week 1, barring a defensive gem of a game being played? Honestly, I haven't been a big supporter of his ways, as other posts show, and talk last year of removing him was a heated debate, with points from both sides. Can he manage/improve on the 3-4, and keep the nay-sayers at bay this year, or will the main focus of the team continue to be RGIII and Morris, shadowing the continual issues on defense? Talk of Raheem taking over was mentioned, and that in itself is a conflict, as he himself was under just as much criticism as Haslett was.

I look forward to a great season, and hopefully a defense that will be improved, healthy, and ranking high in the league; if not, there will be alot of turmoil in the locker room, and in the stands...

SIC

How is this not "another Jim Haslett bash session"? He's the DC, and he'll be coordinator all year.

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I don't know; one of the reasons that we had that seven-game run was due to the defense.

Shanahan a few days ago:

Sorry for the large quote, but it does show where we were in terms of the sheer scale of the injuries, coupled with our big defensive improvements.

I'm not a Haslett fan by any means, but credit where credit is due.

Agree. Both starters out for season. The guys playing may not even make the team this year. Madieau Williams was not resigned. We kept him bc he was a body and our beat option which is scary

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I honestly think Haslett is a solid Defensive Coordinator (Top 15-20, even if the stats don't always show that) , It took him some time to find out what he had with (Pugh,Madoodoo,Rob Jackson,Cedric Griffin,Doughty,Gomes,D.J Johnson). Once he found out what he had and Crawford stepped up BIG TIME after Cedric Griffin got hit with the PED suspension the defense showed VAST improvement.

Think about it we have an undersized NT in coefield (a big ugly NT is super important in a 3-4) we have two average corners (Hall & wilson) we had two TRASH safeties in (Madoodoo and gomes/doughty/Pugh dependent on who got the start that game) we had a very good linebacker group however we were without our #1 pass rusher (imagine Dallas without D.Ware? not saying Orakpo is ware in any form of the word but Orakpo is our D.Ware.) It's impressive what Haslett was able to do with the lack of talent we had on defense.

Haslett will NEVER be an elite D-Coordinator however I would not be willing to get rid of him unless we were signing an elite D-Coordinator because it could ALWAYS be worse. Hiring a new coach doesn't always translate to success, I mean ask the eagles they fired Castillo and promoted Todd Bowles and the defense got WORSE. lol

Look at Kansas City, with all that Talent they have on the defensive side of the ball they only finished #20 in total defense.

Continuity and Talent is the only way to win football games, lets give Haslett the benefit of the doubt for this season.

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He did a solid job down the stretch, but I honestly have no idea what to expect out of him and the defense this year. As for the " Top 10 or bust" post (s), I honestly think that if we scrape together a 13-15 ranking, while improving in just about every other category, and winning more games, that I'd be inclined to have him return.

This year he'll have at least 4 corners in Hall, Wilson, Amerson, and Biggers who you hope will play solid for you, along with Minnefield as a wildcard, and improved safety depth, and a Wildcard in Jenkins (in terms of pass rush availability). Like other posters have said, I don't think I'll ever be 100 % comfortable with him (just because he'll still call weird **** from time to time) but with how our offense is shaping up to be for the forseeable future, simply not sucking will be enough for me to not pull my hair out, meaning 10-15 range.

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How is this not "another Jim Haslett bash session"? He's the DC, and he'll be coordinator all year.

Well, its not a 'bash session' because:

A. its not being done during the season, which gives credibility to those who may want a different DC.

B. myself, nor anyone else is personally attacking him

C. its more of a point of view referring to the injured players coming back, the free agents, draft picks, and whether or not there will be calls to give him time, being he's only had this group of players this year, which seemed to be a plea by some last year.

Ya gotta admit, its a calmer topic and time compared to the ones during season; alot of people, myself included, were livid at some of the playcalling, so this is a good a time as any to discuss whether he gets the job done this year or not, and what should be done.

The excuse of Haslett having injured players can only work so long, because players get hurt all the time, and its a broken theory; one could actually use that excuse for the next 100 years, by reason.

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I'll never be one to put Haslett up on a pedestal, but I don't really understand some of the asskickings he takes around here either. I mean, look at his depth chart BEFORE the season last year, then as it went along. Before - Both safety postions set, great D line, capable corners, and near excellent LB's. Then it all went to ****, and the poor guy had to come up with different ways of disguising looks just to keep them in games with all those holes. And even with all the deficiencies, they actually DID get better as the season went along.

Everyone wants to say, "well sure there were a few lost players, but..." Ain't no "but", thats HUUUUUGE and is a major contributing factor. Frankly, I think he did a hell of a job under the circumstances.

While I agree with the premise of your post, I'd say instead that the team of Haslett, Slowick and Morris did a hell of a job under the circumstances. Whatever happened between those three after the bye week was special. Slowick was sure to lose his job and Haslett was under fire... then Haslett started coming up with better gameplans; Slowick got guys like Rob Jackson to really step up and the linebackers improved their coverage IMMENSELY; and Morris did an absolute incredible job rotating the secondary players (players like Pugh and DJ Johnson) to where their strengths were maximized and weaknesses were minimized. Haslett mentioned that he never had a secondary rotation like that in his entire coaching career. Reed Doughty was actually beasting it the last two games. Yes, quote me on that. Go watch the tape. Dude was killing it and you'd think he was a star Strong Safety if you didn't know his role before. Again, I attribute that to Morris' coaching as well as the game plans Haslett was coming up with.

That's why I'm absolutely ecstatic about this group of coaches returning together. I couldn't wait to see Slowick gone and was impartial to Haslett. But, now, I love their chemistry. Something clicked with them and it was special. By the last two games we played (against Dallas and the Seahawks) our defense was actually one of the better ones in the league, I don't care what anyone says. Maybe even top 7 *ducks*.

The fact of the matter is we played the Cowboys the last game of the season for the division and they were coming off an incredible hot streak of offensive might that was, in some regards, historic (for instance, they put up something like 108 points their last 7 games in the 4th quarter alone, to which no team in NFL history had done before). What did we do? Kept them in check the entire game and didn't allow them to explode in the 4th quarter like they had done 7 times in a row.

Same goes for Seattle. They were putting up 40 points almost every game going into the playoffs. What did we do? We held them in check almost the entire game, keeping them to 13 points well into the 4th quarter. I can't blame the defense for giving up the late scores, our offense had done absolutely nothing for 3 straight quarters and then we even gave them the ball inside the goal line when Robert's knee finally gave way.

So, yeah... I'm incredibly excited to see this coaching staff return with WAAAAAY better talent overall to play with. The only thing I'm worried about is Haslett going back to playing it safe because that's what he likes to do when he feels like he has the personnel. He was essentially forced to get creative and allow Morris to coach his secondary uniquely because of the injuries we suffered. That being said, I think those guys know they found something special and won't change how they were game planning and coaching the last 6-7 games.

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I think the sort of offense we have now lends itself to a different kind of defense. That our offense can now score in bunches means that the opposition needs to take alot of chances on our D.

I couldn't care less where we rank in yardage. It's that points allowed and number of turnovers statistic that'll be most important. Rambo, Thomas, Amerson, Hall are all opportunists. I'm excited.

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