2cents Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I've been reading, on this site, that redskins is not a racial slur and isn't used as one. Yet you're saying that you know that it is. Someone is wrong. Well there really is no right or wrong answer, as both sides have their opinion and there is no real right or wrong. The question is if a small minority can, without the support of facts, force their opinions and beliefs on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 So the leaders and educators who've encouraged thousands of orgs to drop Native themes over the past 40 years were all just a creation of the free press? Sort of like the Kardashians? It was done by white indians that control the press, hospitals, government, coconut trees, and the entire supply of shampoo sold in the Americas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'm not saying people aren't offended I'm simply saying I know for a fact thus isn't a "fight" nothing is changing I wouldn't consider the decision to rid the band of their traditional headdresses an act of 'nothing changing'. Bruce Allen addressing the media, coupled with releases on the website haven't been signs of retreat. The team is responding to the conflict, it sure smells like a fight to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskin-All-In Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 post deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well you conveniently neglected the Viking argument, which does allude to ethnicity. And you've completely ignored the numerous logical contradictions pointed out in your arguments by several people here. Or I guess I could reply as you have, and simply point out that you didn't read my post very carefully.Maybe you should go back to grading high school papers and stop projecting your worldview into telling others how they ought to think, simply based on the deep thinking you've accomplished grading papers and reading websites. It seems like he is missing the argument that is that some in the Native American culture really resent a small group speaking for the enitre culture when they feel that that group does not really reflect their views. I think that they probably resent that small group wasting time and effort on our name and ignoring the real problems in the Native American world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well you conveniently neglected the Viking argument It doesn't seem like anybody has a problem with the Vikings theme. I wish we had that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'm sorry, I read the OP several times, but i cannot find any real reference to the stating that the person referenced actually supports the name 'Redskins'. What he/she is saying is that there are more important issues than mascots and that they just do not care. There is an important distinction between supporting a name and just not giving a damn. This thread is just misleading. If he team changes its name, so be it. They will always be the Redskins in my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well you conveniently neglected the Viking argument, which does allude to ethnicity. And you've completely ignored the numerous logical contradictions pointed out in your arguments by several people here. Or I guess I could reply as you have, and simply point out that you didn't read my post very carefully.Maybe you should go back to grading high school papers and stop projecting your worldview into telling others how they ought to think, simply based on the deep thinking you've accomplished grading papers and reading websites. He fell into a obvious trap. Truth is the Vikings, 49ers, and Packers have absolutely nothing to do with this point unless he opposes groups seeking to change their names. Having an issue with the Redskins name or logo is a position that can exist entirely independent of other team names someone else might have a problem with. Seems to be little more than a distraction to me. Let me give it a try... Do the Dolphins contribute to Dolphin conservation efforts? Do they hand out copies of The Cove at home games? NO?! Oh well then if you have a problem with the Redskins what about THE FRIGGIN DOLPHINS?! Yeah, thought so! Go back to grading papers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskin-All-In Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 post deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I wouldn't consider the decision to rid the band of their traditional headdresses an act of 'nothing changing'. Bruce Allen addressing the media, coupled with releases on the website haven't been signs of retreat. The team is responding to the conflict, it sure smells like a fight to me. I agree that it's a fight but it has been going for decades and nothing has changed. rd421 is probably right in saying that nothing is changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskin-All-In Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 post deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 but I respect the hell out of how you defende/describe your position. Well thanks RAI. I know I'm not a popular one around here, but I simply want to move past this issue. We all associate the name and theme with good times and pride. Nobody here is racist for loving the B&G for cryin out loud. The main objective in my stance is to avoid losing another PC, PR battle ala GPM 1961. I don't think Dan Snyder and co. are equipped to fight this war for another ten years. Casualties like the Smithsonian's Native symposium will continue to take their toll for years to come, until we change. We are not gaining national support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseGoForTheWin Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 No one is presently referred to as Vikings. There is a living culture, whom the Redskins name and mascot is related to, and that's part of what sets those examples apart. Also consider that Vikings did not experience the cultural and in some cases literal (not to mention recent) genocide in this country, and redskin is part of that ugly history. And as someone else tried to point out, it's not about what other teams are doing or have done--this issue is about our team. Justifying unethical/immoral/racist/whatever you want to call it behavior based on the fact that others are doing the same is poor logic. You also pointed out that I dismissed someone's argument by saying that he hadn't considered my statement very carefully, which is correct, but his response was dismissive and didn't actually address what I said. I wrote a follow up post and elaborated. So for you to mock my phrasing does not show an understanding of the context of our exchange or any sort of analysis of what I had to say. Furthermore, if you had actually read my responses, you would see that I do in fact want to keep the name. I am with you in that regard, so I am hardly pushing my worldview on others. If you took the time to read and think instead of react you would have seen that point. You would have also seen that I explicitly said that I am not dismissing anyone else's arguments. Finally, if it makes you feel superior to dismiss my profession and throw derogatory remarks my way, so be it. Nevermind that you are making these very personal accusations based on a few comments exchanged on an Internet forum. Regardless, doing so won't change the fact that this issue is real, isn't going away, and that trying to justify your position by belittling me personally won't "win" any argument. I am sorry that your Saturday night is ruined because the rest of the world doesn't agree with you, but perhaps your frustration is an indication that it is you, not I, who is too wholly invested in this issue. Anyway, I visit this forum for team news and to celebrate the success of our team. So, enough with the debating. Here's to hoping that RG3 makes a full recovery, our team wins the Super Bowl every year for the remaining history of the universe, and that we can focus on what brings us together rather than what drives us apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskin-All-In Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 post deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Fascinating article. I'm glad Kevin brought up the actual plight of modern American Indians as a contrast to this genuinely silly and petty argument over the nickname. My old church in Greenville did some mission work at a reservation in Oklahoma and from what I've heard, the conditions are comparable to third world nations. That is deplorable. That's the real struggle American Indians have to deal with in this country. I've been screaming about this all along. Many if these "Redskins are Racist" agenda boys (UnWise Mike, Jim Vance, Courtland Milloy Jason Reid, etc.) have probably never been to an actual Indian reservation before. Unemployment, depression and suicide rates are the highest (per capita) amongst Native Americans out of all ethnicities. If they really want to help the Native Americans then how about volunteering on the reservation, donate some old clothes or canned food, offer to pick up trash or drive people to work and school. I'll bet they'd much rather prefer some tangible help over a phony crusade to change a sports teams name. Yes I have been to two reservations in Arizona and yes it's THAT bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I have a feeling that the original person behind the name change police is not a native american, but is an entrepreneur who ironically is likely profiting off it. Stirring the pot, but for his own good. I hope someone exposes this person, if true. Make a $10 donation today bull****. Most of all donation money does not directly serve its true cause, it is to line pockets. It is just capitalism, and it is our way of life. Do not be deceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I have a feeling that the original person behind the name change police is not a native american, but is an entrepreneur who ironically is likely profiting off it. Stirring the pot, but for his own good. I hope someone exposes this person, if true. Make a $10 donation today bull****. Most of all donation money does not directly serve its true cause, it is to line pockets. It is just capitalism, and it is our way of life. Do not be deceived. Just an assumption, but I think we see things similarly...fair and equitable capitalism is ok. Screwing the others who can't equitably participate is wrong. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 It doesn't seem like anybody has a problem with the Vikings theme. I wish we had that luxury. the Buffalo Bills have that luxury. and as is evident, that name is the single most offensive name to Native culture in all of American professional sports. And the fact that no one in the all-ignorant media cares, or even KNOWS why it should be offensive is exactly why i am glad the Redskins are ignoring this "issue". outrage without thought deserves no attention. Our name "sounds" offensive, so it makes the pinheads weep with guilt. Their name actually IS offensive, and these whiners haven't got a clue. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I have a feeling that the original person behind the name change police is not a native american, but is an entrepreneur who ironically is likely profiting off it. Do not be deceived. You could probably blame Harvard white guy Richard Lyman, but he passed away last spring. Stanford is genarally recognized as the starting point for the national 'remove the Native theme' movement, and it was president Lyman who green lighted the change in 1972. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 the Buffalo Bills have that luxury.and as is evident, that name is the single most offensive name to Native culture in all of American professional sports. And the fact that no one in the all-ignorant media cares, or even KNOWS why it should be offensive is exactly why i am glad the Redskins are ignoring this "issue". outrage without thought deserves no attention. Our name "sounds" offensive, so it makes the pinheads weep with guilt. Their name actually IS offensive, and these whiners haven't got a clue. ~Bang Yeah, no clue at all. They probably don't even know how sacred the Buffalo is to Native Americans. ---------- Post added March-3rd-2013 at 08:47 AM ---------- You could probably blame Harvard white guy Richard Lyman, but he passed away last spring. Stanford is genarally recognized as the starting point for the national 'remove the Native theme' movement, and it was president Lyman who green lighted the change in 1972. I knew in the 80s that this was not a real issue, but political. I remember the story about the guy who protested outside RFK and got a lot of attention....and then put on his Redskin shirt and went to the game. Total hypocrasy.[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I remember the story about the guy who protested outside RFK and got a lot of attention....and then put on his Redskin shirt and went to the game. Total hypocrasy.[ The first awareness effort against us I can remember were the Native protests outside of SB26, and then 11 months later for the Cowboys game at RFK. Soon after in the 90s, Ben Knighthorse Campbell wanted the Feds to deny JKC the right to build a new stadium in DC. I remember being really pissed about each of those instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The first awareness effort against us I can remember were the Native protests outside of SB26, and then 11 months later for the Cowboys game at RFK. Soon after in the 90s, Ben Knighthorse Campbell wanted the Feds to deny JKC the right to build a new stadium in DC. I remember being really pissed about each of those instances. Hmm. Who did we play in SB26? Oh yeah,, the Buffalo Bills. The team named for the man who made his name slaughtering the buffalo herds and destroying the native way of life, and then exploited them in his wild west minstrel show. And the guy protested US. This is why he gets the middle finger and nothing else. Outrage without thought deserves no more. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The first awareness effort against us I can remember were the Native protests outside of SB26, and then 11 months later for the Cowboys game at RFK. Soon after in the 90s, Ben Knighthorse Campbell wanted the Feds to deny JKC the right to build a new stadium in DC. I remember being really pissed about each of those instances. I remember the story in the Post about SB 22 time, but I could be off.....just remember thinking, well it can't be that important if he goes in and watches the game. I still stand by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 And the guy protested US. This is why he gets the middle finger and nothing else. Who was this guy? Me wants more nuggetts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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