2011 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Going Commando]

For discussion purposes, I'll post Walter Football's 2011 Mock Draft.

Jones wouldn't be a god awful pick, but I much prefer Rob Rang's mock for us: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-RobRang

12. Washington Redskins

Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State: Paea might lack the size most teams prefer at nose guard, but his natural leverage and stunning strength have made him arguably the Pac-10's top returning senior outside of Locker

He's got that Samoan warrior vibe like Haloti Ngata and I think he'd be a piece that could put our defensive front over the top. If we're not going to get a QB or one of the top 2 receivers, it'd be really nice to get our NT and then maybe a stud ILB prospect in the second like Dont'a Hightower (if he falls from his injury like Corey Wootton did).

[theboomking]

Well guys I got bored tonight and as I was sitting here I realized there is also a 2nd game of the week to watch out for and that is Texas A&M Miami game. There are a lot of prospects to watch

CB Brandon Harris

DE/DT Allen Bailey

QB Jacory Harris

DE Von Miller

QB Jerrod Johnson

Those are just a few the Miami team this year is loaded and something to watch for in terms of Draft prospects and Texas A&M has a monster 3-4 LB in Von Miller who is very similar to LaMarr Woodley when he came out and Jerrod Johnson who I project as our 2nd round pick

If anyone else has a game to look out for then please go ahead and post it

I really like Allen Bailey's potential, as I think many of you do. I worry about his intensity and motor however. He has flashes of brilliance, then disappears. With his soft spoken personality, elite athleticism and potential lack of a nasty streak, I worry that Bailey might be a Courtney Brown clone.

I don't think Von Miller is anything at all like Lamarr Woodley. Miller is a pure speed player with a great 1st step and a good inside counter. I view him as a more productive Aaron Maybin, from a less competitive conference. Miller is going to get engulfed by NFL tackles in the passing game, and just crushed in the running game.

By the way, I know that Pittsburgh won't let him go, but Woodley is an UFA in 2011.

I have to ask why RT? Do you feel we won't keep Brown after this year? The rest I agree with except for maybe QB we could wait off a year or so for

I also worry about Brown's hip and age. I'd consider grabbing a tackle if one is available.

RB

1. Mark Ingram

2. Ryan Williams

3. Evan Royster

4. Shane Vereen

5. Daniel Thomas

WR's

1. AJ Green

2. Julio Jones

3. Jonathan Baldwin

4. Michael Floyd

5. Ryan Broyles

Why? Green right now is head and shoulders above the other WR's. He's the more consistent and the better athlete IMO. He very well could be one of the few WR's who are drafted #1 overall if the Rams end up with the #1 pick again. Jones is someone who right now is slipping on some draft boards for next year but I think he'll end up being a top 10 pick with his size and skill set. Baldwin is very similar to Fitzgerald except I think he's a little slower than what Fitzgerald was coming out of college. He'll be a great redzone target for any QB and will be a #1 receiver no doubt about it. Floyd is more of a speed guy but he also can make the big possessions when needed. Broyles is a lot like Santana Moss quick speedy guy who can make guys miss. I would say he's a late 1st to mid 2nd round pick with the other 4 as 1st round picks now

I could get behind either Williams or Ingram, but question the need to pick a RB in the 1st. Mike Shannahan has gotten so much production out of lesser talent.

With the WR's, I think you have Julio Jones way too high, and Baldin too low. Jones looks a lot like Aurelius Benn, with lesser production. Baldwin reminds me of a poor man's Calvin Johnson. He may push Green out of that top spot.

Allen Bailey had no bigger fan than me last season but now I have a few concerns about him I want to see answered before he can live up to his expectations. Pound for pound, he's probably the best athlete in college football--essentially he's a MLB playing DT.

But I also watched a good bit of Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy and Bailey was not even close to where they were at last year. Bailey is a freak athlete that will make jaw dropping plays every now and then. But I've never seen him take over stretches of games like great defensive linemen do. He disappears too much. I think he's been misused in Miami. They change his position every year based on who graduates or gets hurt and it's left Bailey underdeveloped. His home in the NFL will be playing as a 3, 4, 5, and 6 technique, but he's got a lot to prove this year to show he belongs in the first half of the first round. That's where he'll be drafted after turning in a combine where he puts up 30 something reps and runs a 4.6/4.7 40 at 290 pounds.

As it is, if we were looking to draft a 5 technique in the first round, Marcel Dareus, Cameron Heyward, and Adrian Clayborn have all been better to this point in their college careers. Here's hoping Bailey has a breakout year because he's literally got everything else going for him--absurd size and athleticism, toughness, intelligence, good work ethic.

I agree about Dareus, Heyward and Clayborn being good fits. I also think that Greg Romeus has the length and strength to bulk up a bit and be effective as a 5 tech. I wouldn't know where to put Bailey on that list until the end of the college season.

One position that I didn't see mentioned was nose tackle, where I am worried that Kemo has been pushed around a little too easily. Jerrell Powe out of Ole Miss could be a good fit, and will probably be available in the late 1st.

[Dukes and Skins]

Jones wouldn't be a god awful pick, but I much prefer Rob Rang's mock for us: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-RobRang

He's got that Samoan warrior vibe like Haloti Ngata and I think he'd be a piece that could put our defensive front over the top. If we're not going to get a QB or one of the top 2 receivers, it'd be really nice to get our NT and then maybe a stud ILB prospect in the second like Dont'a Hightower (if he falls from his injury like Corey Wootton did).

Steve I'm thinking we're actually ok at ILB right now, Perry Riley looked very impressive outside of his one blunder on coverage but he blitzed well and stuffed the run. I think we are going to look either WR or OLB with our #1 pick and I think it comes down to would you rather want a WR like Baldwin or a stud OLB like Miller or Bruce Carter from UNC. I personally would take Baldwin 10 times out of 10 and then take an OLB in the 2nd round.

[theboomking]

Steve I'm thinking we're actually ok at ILB right now, Perry Riley looked very impressive outside of his one blunder on coverage but he blitzed well and stuffed the run. I think we are going to look either WR or OLB with our #1 pick and I think it comes down to would you rather want a WR like Baldwin or a stud OLB like Miller or Bruce Carter from UNC. I personally would take Baldwin 10 times out of 10 and then take an OLB in the 2nd round.

I doubt we draft a WR in the 1st. Has Mike Shannahan ever drafted a receiver in the first round? I can't remember one. Even if we don't trade for Vincent Jackson, he will be a FA in 2011. I think it is much more likely we draft mid to late round WR's and obtain veteran receivers through the draft and FA.

We'll see how McIntosh does this year, but Riley might be our only young LB who is physically well suited to the 3-4. We obviously also have a hole at OLB across from Orakpo. I'm not sure where Carter would fit in a 3-4. He looks like an ideal 4-3 OLB.

That doesn't mean that I think we'll go with a LB. If I had to guess, I'd say we go with DL, CB, or OL. If a great OLB candidate emerges, we could go in that direction.

[Going Commando]

Steve I'm thinking we're actually ok at ILB right now, Perry Riley looked very impressive outside of his one blunder on coverage but he blitzed well and stuffed the run. I think we are going to look either WR or OLB with our #1 pick and I think it comes down to would you rather want a WR like Baldwin or a stud OLB like Miller or Bruce Carter from UNC. I personally would take Baldwin 10 times out of 10 and then take an OLB in the 2nd round.

You're right about Riley. The FO has plans for him and I think he's looked upon as an eventual starter. One thing that will clue us in to our plans at LB will be what kind of a deal Rocky gets. If it's a big one, then it'll be clear we're not taking an ILB early.

I don't necessarily think we'll have to in order to have a great front 7. Gem ILBs are available in the middle rounds every year. One guy to watch is Martez Wilson from Illinois. He looked great in 2008 but had a down year and got hurt in 2009. Guys like him come off the board fairly late but go on to have productive NFL careers.

I doubt we draft a WR in the 1st. Has Mike Shannahan ever drafted a receiver in the first round? I can't remember one. Even if we don't trade for Vincent Jackson, he will be a FA in 2011. I think it is much more likely we draft mid to late round WR's and obtain veteran receivers through the draft and FA.

I agree with you. I expect we'll be drafting too late to land Green or Baldwin and they look like the only two whose talent would make them the overwhelming BPA where we're likely to draft. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if Kelly and Thomas have good years and minimize our need at the position.

We'll see how McIntosh does this year, but Riley might be our only young LB who is physically well suited to the 3-4. We obviously also have a hole at OLB across from Orakpo. I'm not sure where Carter would fit in a 3-4. He looks like an ideal 4-3 OLB.

I'm not optimistic about Carter either and expect him to have a fairly limited role in the defense from now on. We'll need to address that OLB spot eventually, but this doesn't look like a great 3-4 OLB class at the top unfortunately. I assume we'll give Wilson and Alexander a look. If no one sticks, I hope we look at the middle rounds for solutions. Uconn has some nice looking linebackers. Greg Lloyd Jr. anyone?

That doesn't mean that I think we'll go with a LB. If I had to guess, I'd say we go with DL, CB, or OL. If a great OLB candidate emerges, we could go in that direction.

I hope we prioritize QBs and defensive linemen. The QB situation will be impossible to predict until we see who declares. We might be in position to get a good prospect if a couple of underclassmen come out. But if Gabbert, Luck, and Mallett all return to school, the class will end up being pretty barren in the first round. I don't think Shanahan would hesitate to draft a Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert if he was available. But the pessimist in me thinks we'll be just out of range for them.

Whether draft a DB or not will come down to how Carlos and Kareem Moore play. If we sign Carlos to a long term contract this year, I doubt we'll pick any corner not named Patrick Peterson in the first round. We'll simply be carrying too much money at the position to do that, because Hall is on the hook for a lot of money as well.

Some of the defensive linemen will be too good to pass up if they're available when we pick in the mid rounds. I could see us drafting Powe or Paea and I'd be happy with those picks. The 5 techniques are really good this year too. We'll probably get the most bang for our buck from drafting a DL in the middle of the first should there be no worthy QB.

As for offensive linemen, I wouldn't expect us to take a RT in the first round but I wouldn't be shocked by it. An interior player would be a fairly large luxury, but it could also be a decent value pick should we end up drafting pretty late. The only two guys I can think of that would be worth it are Rodney Hudson and Stefen Wisniewski. Hudson is a perfect fit for our running game and I'd be pleased drafting him in the late teens and twenties. Otherwise, there are a lot of really good interior linemen that should be available in the middle rounds this year. Check out some of the names of tackles who've been moved inside on the nfl draft scout rankings: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011_OG

Clint Boling, Jarriel King, Marcus Cannon... Justin Boren, John Moffit, and Steve Schilling are all good players too. There'll be talent available in the middle rounds.

As for potential RT candidates if Jammal Brown doesn't work out, Nate Solder is the first that comes to mind. Shanahan will love his speed, but his height might actually be a problem because he's sooo tall. I like both Jason Pinkston and Anthony Castonzo. Matt Reynolds from BYU is a mauler but who knows if he'll come out? Tyron Smith from USC would probably be our best bet if he comes out early. He might be limited to ZBS schemes like Charles Brown but I think he's more talented than Brown was. He fits our profile and has plenty of experience playing RT. He could also be available in the second round and would provide really nice value there.

[Dro89]

i would LOVE to get Von Miller and Julio somehow and then somehow get a ILB in Free Agency.. is there a list of possible free agents for next year (i know its a little off topic but it can somehow judge the outcome of a draft)

[theboomking]

i would LOVE to get Von Miller and Julio somehow and then somehow get a ILB in Free Agency.. is there a list of possible free agents for next year (i know its a little off topic but it can somehow judge the outcome of a draft)

Honest question...have you watched much of Von Miller? I've only watched a couple of games, but he looked like a pure speed player that isn't great with his hands. Can anyone else that has scouted him comment?

If I were going to fantasize, it would be abot signing Woodley and Vincent Jackson and drafting Hudson with a pick in the mid twenties.

[Dro89]

ive seen a hand ful of his game i liked what i saw. but i don't see many A&M games here..

[Dukes and Skins]

Honest question...have you watched much of Von Miller? I've only watched a couple of games, but he looked like a pure speed player that isn't great with his hands. Can anyone else that has scouted him comment?

If I were going to fantasize, it would be abot signing Woodley and Vincent Jackson and drafting Hudson with a pick in the mid twenties.

I can say I've not watched a ton of Von Miller but the times I've watched him I've been very impressed, he has the speed to beat an OT but he has strength. I mean he's not the biggest guy at only 240 to 250 but he's got the strength to be able to take on a block and shed blocks. I'm sure everyone will agree most prospects aren't polished to the best outside of maybe an Orakpo and a Manning and people like that, but Miller IMO has the work ethic and the desire to be a great player

[Warpath11]

Speaking of other QBs i have not seen mentioned yet what is everyones take on these guys: Not sure which of these guys, if any, are eligble for the draft in 2011.

Case Keenum- U of Houston

Kellen Moore- Boise

Andy Dalton- TCU

Tom Savage- Rutgers (only a true sophmore)

[Going Commando]

Honest question...have you watched much of Von Miller? I've only watched a couple of games, but he looked like a pure speed player that isn't great with his hands. Can anyone else that has scouted him comment?

If I were going to fantasize, it would be abot signing Woodley and Vincent Jackson and drafting Hudson with a pick in the mid twenties.

I've seen some A&M games. What makes Von Miller special is his first step, his motor, and his craftiness. He's got a better array of rush moves than most players coming out and he moves well laterally so I don't think he'd struggle too much standing up in the NFL. His motor is equivalent to Jerry Hughes' and Brandon Graham's. He's not as strong in his base or his upper body as either of them were and I'm pretty sure he's a good bit lighter than they were. What he has is a lightning first step and there's a lot of value in that. He's like a much more productive and polished version of Jason Worilds and Aaron Maybin.

I'm not sure he would be a great fit for us though. What we need to be searching out is a Woodley/Spencer type to play opposite Orakpo. Mainly, we need someone who can bring edge pressure that is also strong enough to set the table against the run on his side of the field. I don't know if that is Miller... He seems more like a pure pass defender.

I like your thought of waiting to fill some needs like WR or LB in free agency. It's going to be a big class since it'll have three classes in it instead of two (assuming a new CBA is struck). I also like your thought of drafting Hudson although one thing that's consistently true about the ZBS is that you don't need highly drafted interior players to get great results. Hudson is special. I think he's a better guard than Maurkice Pouncey was and I LOVED Pouncey and thought he was the best linemen in the entire 2010 class. Hudson is strong and athletic and he's completely polished. He's about as pro-ready as an OL will come and he's a perfect ZBS fit given his size and quickness. Some teams won't want him because he's a little short and light but it's great for us because we don't want them too big or tall. And he's got special football intelligence which is nice given the diffusion of responsibilty in a ZBS from the interior linemen outwards. I think he's a better guard prospect than Pouncey and Branden Albert were.

This will sound like a giant bit of hyperbole but I'm serious. I think a left side comprising Trent Williams and Rodney Hudson would match the talent level of Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. Trent is a spot on imitation for Jones' athleticism and natural talent, and while Hudson isn't as mauling in the run game as Hutch he's probably already a better pass protector, that's how gifted he is.

All that said, there would have to be a large list of players already off the board before I'd hope for Hudson because of his positional value. Namely, I'd want him only if my tier 1 & 2 favorites were gone. Here's how I'd rank them in accordance with positional value and overall talent:

Tier 1: (elite talents, high positional value)

Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, A.J. Green, Jonathan Baldwin, Patrick Peterson, Robert Quinn

Tier 2: (special but not elite talents, high positional value)

Stephen Paea, Jerrell Powe, Cameron Heyward, Marcel Dareus, Adrian Clayborn, Allen Bailey, Gabe Carimi, Prince Amukamara, Greg Romeus (assuming he can play 5 technique)

Tier 3: (elite talents, low positional value)

Rodney Hudson, Rahim Moore, Ryan Williams, Mark Ingram, Dont'a Hightower, Chris Galippo, Bruce Carter, Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones

Tier 4: (first round talent, high positional value)

Christian Ponder, Ryan Mallett, Nate Solder, Von Miller, Sam Acho, Jeremy Beal, Ras-I Dowling, Anthony Castonzo, Michael Floyd, Julio Jones

For me Hudson falls into the category of players who I think have the chance to be among the best at there position in the NFL some day, however, their postions carry low draft value in our offensive and defensive schemes. We'd probably be better off drafting a standout defensive lineman like Cameron Heyward even if he doesn't go down as an annual probowler.

[Dukes and Skins]

I tell you steve if Baldwin and Green are off the board but somehow Peterson is still there I would take him in a heartbeat. I think we've seen great CB's coming out but I don't think I've seen one as shutdown as he is, maybe I've seen too much of him and not enough of Prince Amukamara but honestly Peterson has made some of the best receivers in the SEC look like they were nothing. I think we could be seeing a draft consisting of a player like Peterson or Amukamara at CB and then a OLB in round 2. I think we'll address the WR position in FA one way or another with either a big splash like Jackson or a medium size splashes like Malcolm Floyd or James Jones. I think Jones is someone who if he puts up a decent season will not return to GB I think he needs to go somewhere, where he can start because honestly on a lot of teams in the NFL he could be a starter no doubt about it. A WR core of Jones, Thomas, and Moss in the slot could be very good for a long time.

[Dukes and Skins]

Speaking of other QBs i have not seen mentioned yet what is everyones take on these guys: Not sure which of these guys, if any, are eligble for the draft in 2011.

Case Keenum- U of Houston

Kellen Moore- Boise

Andy Dalton- TCU

Tom Savage- Rutgers (only a true sophmore)

Between the 3 eligible QB's I would only look at Andy Dalton. I worry about Moore because yes he can make all the throws, but the times I've watched him play I see a QB who doesn't have a lot of zip on his passes. Keenum is a product of the system and really isn't as good as people think he is because of his inflated numbers. Yes he could be a Kolb type and get drafted higher but I would shy away from someone like him. Dalton though has the look of a pro style QB and while he didn't play in a perfect pro-style scheme, he has the zip on his passes and the accuracy to be an NFL QB. He's someone you would take in the 3rd or 4th round to develop and then hope he's gotten everything down to be your starter down the road

[Going Commando]

I tell you steve if Baldwin and Green are off the board but somehow Peterson is still there I would take him in a heartbeat. I think we've seen great CB's coming out but I don't think I've seen one as shutdown as he is, maybe I've seen too much of him and not enough of Prince Amukamara but honestly Peterson has made some of the best receivers in the SEC look like they were nothing. I think we could be seeing a draft consisting of a player like Peterson or Amukamara at CB and then a OLB in round 2. I think we'll address the WR position in FA one way or another with either a big splash like Jackson or a medium size splashes like Malcolm Floyd or James Jones. I think Jones is someone who if he puts up a decent season will not return to GB I think he needs to go somewhere, where he can start because honestly on a lot of teams in the NFL he could be a starter no doubt about it. A WR core of Jones, Thomas, and Moss in the slot could be very good for a long time.

No doubt Peterson is rare and in retrospect, I would consider drafting him ahead of Green and Baldwin because Shanahan does really well with picking receivers in later rounds. Peterson reminds me of a Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie maybe with better footwork and balance. He's got that same kind of length and speed and fluidity. Most college corners have ups and downs over a season but Peterson seems to play great every week. I think he'll be NFL ready by the end of this season.

I never really paid attention to Amukamara last year but he's getting rave reviews by scouts. Apparently he's the #1 graded senior prospect by that group that gives college players their draft stock estimates before they decide whether to declare or not, I can't remember what their name is. It'll be fun comparing him to Peterson throughout the season.

Still I'm not sure we'll draft a CB early since we've got a pretty good group on the roster. We've got a lot of money tied up in Deangelo Hall. His contract is heavily front loaded, but it's still large enough after this season to make cutting him unlikely. Plus he's a good player and there is no need to cut him anyway. The coaches love Carlos apparently and are envisioning him as some sort of Charles Woodson type all around corner. If he plays well, he'll get a new deal and it will probably be a big one. So our starting CB positions are pretty much spoken for. I like our depth also between Tryon and Barnes. It's more likely we'll turn to the later rounds to look for CB depth. Still, Peterson at least is so special that you almost have to draft him if he falls into your lap. You could say the same about A.J. Green though and if Baldwin has a big year like I think he will, them him too.

HOPEFULLY we won't be in position to draft them though because those three guys feel like top 6 talents. Same for Robert Quinn.

But the QBs are a unique case. Sure Locker and maybe Luck will go pretty early (if Luck comes out). But the 3rd QB in the class might stick around for a while. There aren't going to be many teams looking to draft a QB that are likely to pick ahead of us. As I see it, it might only be Buffalo and Jacksonville unless San Francisco or Arizona tank (unlikely IMO). Minnesota will probably finish higher than us. So the 3rd QB in the class might very well be ours if we want him, even if we finish in the late teens. If that's the case then I'd pray for Gabbert, Luck, and Mallett to come out early, and for Gabbert to be the one that drops. I'd be doing backflips if that happened and we took him. Then in three consecutive years we'd have gotten our stud pass rusher, stud LT, and stud QB and filled the three most important positions on the roster with awesome long term solutions.

[Dukes and Skins]

No doubt Peterson is rare and in retrospect, I would consider drafting him ahead of Green and Baldwin because Shanahan does really well with picking receivers in later rounds. Peterson reminds me of a Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie maybe with better footwork and balance. He's got that same kind of length and speed and fluidity. Most college corners have ups and downs over a season but Peterson seems to play great every week. I think he'll be NFL ready by the end of this season.

I never really paid attention to Amukamara last year but he's getting rave reviews by scouts. Apparently he's the #1 graded senior prospect by that group that gives college players their draft stock estimates before they decide whether to declare or not, I can't remember what their name is. It'll be fun comparing him to Peterson throughout the season.

Still I'm not sure we'll draft a CB early since we've got a pretty good group on the roster. We've got a lot of money tied up in Deangelo Hall. His contract is heavily front loaded, but it's still large enough after this season to make cutting him unlikely. Plus he's a good player and there is no need to cut him anyway. The coaches love Carlos apparently and are envisioning him as some sort of Charles Woodson type all around corner. If he plays well, he'll get a new deal and it will probably be a big one. So our starting CB positions are pretty much spoken for. I like our depth also between Tryon and Barnes. It's more likely we'll turn to the later rounds to look for CB depth. Still, Peterson at least is so special that you almost have to draft him if he falls into your lap. You could say the same about A.J. Green though and if Baldwin has a big year like I think he will, them him too.

HOPEFULLY we won't be in position to draft them though because those three guys feel like top 6 talents. Same for Robert Quinn.

But the QBs are a unique case. Sure Locker and maybe Luck will go pretty early (if Luck comes out). But the 3rd QB in the class might stick around for a while. There aren't going to be many teams looking to draft a QB that are likely to pick ahead of us. As I see it, it might only be Buffalo and Jacksonville unless San Francisco or Arizona tank (unlikely IMO). Minnesota will probably finish higher than us. So the 3rd QB in the class might very well be ours if we want him, even if we finish in the late teens. If that's the case then I'd pray for Gabbert, Luck, and Mallett to come out early, and for Gabbert to be the one that drops. I'd be doing backflips if that happened and we took him. Then in three consecutive years we'd have gotten our stud pass rusher, stud LT, and stud QB and filled the three most important positions on the roster with awesome long term solutions.

Great points both ways Steve I think you and I are on the same page in terms of the BPA. I think my only concern is I see Carlos wanting more money than the Redskins are willing to offer him and then he bolts somewhere else and then we have D.Hall and then Barnes as our starters. I'm not saying Barnes is terrible, I just would like to see him more as our #4 and on occasion our #3 and work his way up and gain the confidence he needs. Peterson is going to be NFL ready like no other he consistently puts up great stats every week. I think you are right about Gabbert I've gone back and watched more tape on youtube and game film thats been re-aired and I tell you what the man is a monster of a QB, he has the size the speed and the arm to be a star QB and yes he's played in a spread offense and yes he's got some things to work on with accuracy but he's truly a unique QB who if he played on a Texas would be a highly talked about QB while at Missouri he's an afterthought to some people even though he should be one of the higher ranked QB's. Walterfootball has him as a 2nd to 3rd round prospect in the 2012 QB class.

[Going Commando]

Great points both ways Steve I think you and I are on the same page in terms of the BPA. I think my only concern is I see Carlos wanting more money than the Redskins are willing to offer him and then he bolts somewhere else and then we have D.Hall and then Barnes as our starters. I'm not saying Barnes is terrible, I just would like to see him more as our #4 and on occasion our #3 and work his way up and gain the confidence he needs. Peterson is going to be NFL ready like no other he consistently puts up great stats every week. I think you are right about Gabbert I've gone back and watched more tape on youtube and game film thats been re-aired and I tell you what the man is a monster of a QB, he has the size the speed and the arm to be a star QB and yes he's played in a spread offense and yes he's got some things to work on with accuracy but he's truly a unique QB who if he played on a Texas would be a highly talked about QB while at Missouri he's an afterthought to some people even though he should be one of the higher ranked QB's. Walterfootball has him as a 2nd to 3rd round prospect in the 2012 QB class.

Gabbert is still too young to have gotten a bunch of attention and you're right, Missouri wasn't all that great last year so his season was mostly overlooked. But man, it doesn't take watching him long to get excited. He's a man among boys. The size, cannon arm, and the accuracy are all right there plain as day to see. What blows my mind is that I read he's run a 4.6 40 yard dash too so he's got wheels. Plus he's really smart and hard working. IMO, He pretty much has every single tool you could hope for in a prospect, like a 5 tool Willie Mays of quarterbacks. He would be what you would come up with if you went into the player creator on the NCAA football game and designed the prototype QB.

Basically I look at Gabbert and see a rich man's Vince Young as a prospect. He's got the same kind of size, speed, and arm strength as young, but better mechanics, decision making, and accuracy throwing the ball. Plus I'm almost certain Gabbert isn't going to score no damn 6 on his wonderlic like Young did. He'll be better equipped mentally to deal with playing QB in the NFL. I'm not bagging Vince Young. He was one of my favorite QB prospects of the decade along with Carson Palmer and Mark Sanchez, and I still think he's going to be a very good NFL QB. That's how highly I like Gabbert. I'm more excited about him than I was about Stafford and even Sanchez and way more intrigued by him than I was with Bradford.

The main knock on Gabbert will be his offensive system but that is not the deterrent to NFL teams that it used to be. Sam Bradford went first overall in a strong draft despite missing an entire year, playing in a spread offense, and being surrounded by All-Americans and first and second round picks to where he was probably hit less than 30 times in his entire college career. If all of those factors weren't enough to drop him, I doubt playing in a spread offense will be a huge blemish on Gabbert's stock although he'll be competing against Luck and Locker who both play in pro-style systems.

[Dukes and Skins]

Gabbert is still too young to have gotten a bunch of attention and you're right, Missouri wasn't all that great last year so his season was mostly overlooked. But man, it doesn't take watching him long to get excited. He's a man among boys. The size, cannon arm, and the accuracy are all right there plain as day to see. What blows my mind is that I read he's run a 4.6 40 yard dash too so he's got wheels. Plus he's really smart and hard working. IMO, He pretty much has every single tool you could hope for in a prospect, like a 5 tool Willie Mays of quarterbacks. He would be what you would come up with if you went into the player creator on the NCAA football game and designed the prototype QB.

Basically I look at Gabbert and see a rich man's Vince Young as a prospect. He's got the same kind of size, speed, and arm strength as young, but better mechanics, decision making, and accuracy throwing the ball. Plus I'm almost certain Gabbert isn't going to score no damn 6 on his wonderlic like Young did. He'll be better equipped mentally to deal with playing QB in the NFL. I'm not bagging Vince Young. He was one of my favorite QB prospects of the decade along with Carson Palmer and Mark Sanchez, and I still think he's going to be a very good NFL QB. That's how highly I like Gabbert. I'm more excited about him than I was about Stafford and even Sanchez and way more intrigued by him than I was with Bradford.

The main knock on Gabbert will be his offensive system but that is not the deterrent to NFL teams that it used to be. Sam Bradford went first overall in a strong draft despite missing an entire year, playing in a spread offense, and being surrounded by All-Americans and first and second round picks to where he was probably hit less than 30 times in his entire college career. If all of those factors weren't enough to drop him, I doubt playing in a spread offense will be a huge blemish on Gabbert's stock although he'll be competing against Luck and Locker who both play in pro-style systems.

Not going to lie reading the part about VY I a little bit. Vince was one of my favorite QB prospects as well, after watching him destroy that USC defense that night I thought for sure that even with the decent mechanics he had, that he would be a monster player for a long time and I was wrong. He wasn't ready for the pro game mentally and it's shown although I do think that when he can develop his game and become more stable mentally he'll definitely live up to the #3 prospect. As for Gabbert you are right that he'll be competing with Luck and Locker and yeah their both pro-style guys and they'll probably be taken before Gabbert based on the name and the potential but I wouldn't fret one bit if Gabbert was the best of the 3 of them. If he came to Washington and played in this scheme, he would put up some gaudy stats very similar to what Schaub put up in Houston under Kyle Shanahan. That's how much I think he would benefit, although I have a feeling the FO will not want to go with a QB in 2011 and will wait for 2012 to roll around to go after a John Brantley or Matt Barkley when they come out. Brantley is going to put up a monster 2010 year and then stay and when he comes out in 2012 watch out he could be a stud QB for a long time as well.

[Going Commando]

Everyone will be watching Brantley very closely this year. He's supposedly a better pro-prospect than Tebow (although Tebow was still a first rounder). I wouldn't expect him to come out after starting only a year so you are probably right about him and Barkley making up the cream of the 2012 class if Mallett, Luck, and Gabbert declare.

There are a couple of other guys who could blow up and there is a lot of time between now and the 2012 draft for them to do it in. Dayne Crist, Lance Jones, and Garrett Gilbert are all highly touted guys too playing for big time programs. Your boy Robert Griffin too. Those are 2013 names though technically. There are enough potential risers in 2012 already. Guys like Nick Foles, Cam Newton, Jordan Jefferson, and Jacorry Harris could all break out this year and next as well and none of that would surprise me although I don't think much of Harris as a prospect. Terrell Pryor could put together a complete season and solidify himself as a big time QB prospect. And of course there are the three big fish Mallett, Gabbert, and Luck who are in the pond already. If they stay in college for the 2011 season, the 2011 draft class will suffer quite a bit, but that 2012 class is going to be absurdly flush in QBs.

[Dukes and Skins]

Everyone will be watching Brantley very closely this year. He's supposedly a better pro-prospect than Tebow (although Tebow was still a first rounder). I wouldn't expect him to come out after starting only a year so you are probably right about him and Barkley making up the cream of the 2012 class if Mallett, Luck, and Gabbert declare.

There are a couple of other guys who could blow up and there is a lot of time between now and the 2012 draft for them to do it in. Dayne Crist, Lance Jones, and Garrett Gilbert are all highly touted guys too playing for big time programs. Your boy Robert Griffin too. Those are 2013 names though technically. There are enough potential risers in 2012 already. Guys like Nick Foles, Cam Newton, Jordan Jefferson, and Jacorry Harris could all break out this year and next as well and none of that would surprise me although I don't think much of Harris as a prospect. Terrell Pryor could put together a complete season and solidify himself as a big time QB prospect. And of course there are the three big fish Mallett, Gabbert, and Luck who are in the pond already. If they stay in college for the 2011 season, the 2011 draft class will suffer quite a bit, but that 2012 class is going to be absurdly flush in QBs.

Brantley very well could do that, we all saw the same with Mark Sanchez who only started what 16 games and only had one real season as a starter and he came out and ended up as the #5 pick in the draft. I'm not saying he will but it wouldn't surprise me if he did end up coming out for fear of a lock out in 2011. Robert Griffin is someone who if he can come back from the knee injury and perform at a high level in the Big 12 he very well could become a 1st round QB in 2012. IMO he has better mechanics than VY did coming out and he has the same speed and running style as VY. We'll see with him he's maybe the biggest question mark in the Big 12 outside of Landry Jones and Garrett Gilbert who are taking over for two of the best QB's the Big 12 has ever seen. Back to the 2011 draft Steve who are a few of your sleepers going into the season who could impress once they get the spotlight on them?

This is also opened up to anyone who are the people we should keep an eye on during the season?

[theboomking]

I've seen some A&M games. What makes Von Miller special is his first step, his motor, and his craftiness. He's got a better array of rush moves than most players coming out and he moves well laterally so I don't think he'd struggle too much standing up in the NFL. His motor is equivalent to Jerry Hughes' and Brandon Graham's. He's not as strong in his base or his upper body as either of them were and I'm pretty sure he's a good bit lighter than they were. What he has is a lightning first step and there's a lot of value in that. He's like a much more productive and polished version of Jason Worilds and Aaron Maybin.

It's a shame that more of their games aren't televised. As you've pointed out, Von has an elite 1st step, and can really bend the corner. I obviously love his production, although it did come against lesser talent. The two things I haven't seen out of Miller are power and hand use. It is just so hard to make it in the NFL as a pure speed rusher. People have compared Miller to Dumervil, but Dumervil's hand use is far superior, and is a stouter player with a lower center of gravity. I worry that Miller will turn out to be another Quentin Groves or Jarvis Moss. I agree with your assertion that Miller is reminiscent of a more polished Aaron Maybin. There is a decent draft highlight of Miller below. You get to see both Millers awesome burst, and his propensity for getting engulfed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE

I'm not sure he would be a great fit for us though. What we need to be searching out is a Woodley/Spencer type to play opposite Orakpo. Mainly, we need someone who can bring edge pressure that is also strong enough to set the table against the run on his side of the field. I don't know if that is Miller... He seems more like a pure pass defender.

I generally agree. I'd love a Woodley type player, and you know how high I was on Graham last year. We could really use a guy that can stack and shed and play the run in the backfield. On the other hand, if we had an elite speed guy, I think Orakpo could also play that role for us.

I also like your thought of drafting Hudson although one thing that's consistently true about the ZBS is that you don't need highly drafted interior players to get great results. Hudson is special. I think he's a better guard than Maurkice Pouncey was and I LOVED Pouncey and thought he was the best linemen in the entire 2010 class. Hudson is strong and athletic and he's completely polished. He's about as pro-ready as an OL will come and he's a perfect ZBS fit given his size and quickness. Some teams won't want him because he's a little short and light but it's great for us because we don't want them too big or tall. And he's got special football intelligence which is nice given the diffusion of responsibilty in a ZBS from the interior linemen outwards. I think he's a better guard prospect than Pouncey and Branden Albert were.

I think people actually underrate the importance of elite interior line players. Hudson lacks elite size, so maybe he'll last a bit longer than he should, but I could see him going in the 1st.

This will sound like a giant bit of hyperbole but I'm serious. I think a left side comprising Trent Williams and Rodney Hudson would match the talent level of Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. Trent is a spot on imitation for Jones' athleticism and natural talent, and while Hudson isn't as mauling in the run game as Hutch he's probably already a better pass protector, that's how gifted he is.

Did Seattle run a zone scheme at that time? It's pretty hard to beat Jones and Hutchinson. That might be the best left side in the history of the game. I agree that Williams has the athletic ability to be as good as Jones. With Hudson, we might be getting a better pass protector than Hutchinson, but part of what made Hutchinson and Jones so awesome, is that they could consistently just line up and drive the other guys back, regardless of the opponent. I'm not sure you get quite the same advantages of having the elite OT and OG on the same side in a ZBS as you do in a man scheme. What do you think? In any case, here is Hudson against UNC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOIZbQKOQL8

He looks great in pass pro, and actually roots his guy out pretty well when drive blocking. He looked to be on the ground a bit more than I'd prefer when working to the second level.

Here is Hudson's Florida State Bio:

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hudson_rodney00.html

It states that he didn't allow a sack or quarterback pressure in all of 2009, which is obviously impressive. You have to question the source though.

What do you think about Nate Solder's fit for our scheme?

[theboomking]

I tell you steve if Baldwin and Green are off the board but somehow Peterson is still there I would take him in a heartbeat. I think we've seen great CB's coming out but I don't think I've seen one as shutdown as he is, maybe I've seen too much of him and not enough of Prince Amukamara but honestly Peterson has made some of the best receivers in the SEC look like they were nothing. I think we could be seeing a draft consisting of a player like Peterson or Amukamara at CB and then a OLB in round 2. I think we'll address the WR position in FA one way or another with either a big splash like Jackson or a medium size splashes like Malcolm Floyd or James Jones. I think Jones is someone who if he puts up a decent season will not return to GB I think he needs to go somewhere, where he can start because honestly on a lot of teams in the NFL he could be a starter no doubt about it. A WR core of Jones, Thomas, and Moss in the slot could be very good for a long time.

I was wrong last year, but I just don't see us drafting high enough to take Green, Baldwin, Quinn, or Peterson. The only way I see us in the top 10 is if we suffer major injuries at key positions.

[squatch66]

For discussion purposes, I'll post Walter Football's 2011 Mock Draft.

i dont know if anyone went and snooped around their website but they have us picking number 32 in 2012 :laugh::logo:

32. Washington Redskins: Michael Brewster, C, Ohio State

2011 NFL Mock Draft Pick: Julio Jones, WR

Donovan McNabb and Mike Shanahan for the win! Ah, if only Daniel Snyder let competent people manage his team a long time ago...

Current center Casey Rabach will be a 34-year-old entering his contract season when the 2012 NFL Draft rolls around. Michael Brewster would be a potential replacement; he took over as Ohio State's starting center as a freshman and hasn't looked back.

[Dukes and Skins]

i dont know if anyone went and snooped around their website but they have us picking number 32 in 2012 :laugh::logo:

32. Washington Redskins: Michael Brewster, C, Ohio State

2011 NFL Mock Draft Pick: Julio Jones, WR

Donovan McNabb and Mike Shanahan for the win! Ah, if only Daniel Snyder let competent people manage his team a long time ago...

Current center Casey Rabach will be a 34-year-old entering his contract season when the 2012 NFL Draft rolls around. Michael Brewster would be a potential replacement; he took over as Ohio State's starting center as a freshman and hasn't looked back.

That would be one nice pick I have to say and I haven't seen much of Brewster yet but I will try to watch some film on him before I give a true judgement of him, but I do like us addressing the OL in any draft

[Going Commando]

It's a shame that more of their games aren't televised. As you've pointed out, Von has an elite 1st step, and can really bend the corner. I obviously love his production, although it did come against lesser talent. The two things I haven't seen out of Miller are power and hand use. It is just so hard to make it in the NFL as a pure speed rusher. People have compared Miller to Dumervil, but Dumervil's hand use is far superior, and is a stouter player with a lower center of gravity. I worry that Miller will turn out to be another Quentin Groves or Jarvis Moss. I agree with your assertion that Miller is reminiscent of a more polished Aaron Maybin. There is a decent draft highlight of Miller below. You get to see both Millers awesome burst, and his propensity for getting engulfed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE

It's as I suspected. One thing that popped out at me from that video was how slender Miller looked for a DE/OLB. I just looked up his listings and he's put at 6'2"/240 #s. Frankly, that's too small for a 3-4 OLB and I don't think he'll have the length to add a bunch more bulk. We'd be talking about adding 20-30 pounds. He'd probably need to be a situational rusher (we've got plenty of those already) or swing inside to ILB. Looking for him to make that kind of a position change would make him a project which you don't draft in the first round. He's a good player with a flaw that makes him unideal for us. I'd only really look at him if this were going to be a weak class and all of our better options were already taken. I doubt that will be the case.

That said though, if he's got agility in coverage and good instincts, it seems to me he'd be a prime candidate to play in the stack and also perhaps draw the difficult man coverages we might give our OLBs. Couple that with his first rate ability to blitz, would that be enough to give him first round value for us?

I generally agree. I'd love a Woodley type player, and you know how high I was on Graham last year. We could really use a guy that can stack and shed and play the run in the backfield. On the other hand, if we had an elite speed guy, I think Orakpo could also play that role for us.

That's true that Orakpo could move into a more run heavy role, but we still need someone who can play the run on each side. Plus that would seem to limit Orakpo to cover the flaws of another player, which we don't need to be doing if we can help it. I'd prefer we look for a 265# banger with some rush ability in the middle of the draft. If not, then lets get a linebacker that excels in coverage. We should search for someone that augment's Orakpo's talents rather than duplicate them (although wouldn't it be nice to clone him?).

I think people actually underrate the importance of elite interior line players. Hudson lacks elite size, so maybe he'll last a bit longer than he should, but I could see him going in the 1st.

I think he's a first round talent, but the fact that he's listed at 6'2, 286#s is going to scare teams off. Teams want Mike Iupatis in the first round. Hudson is a talent though. He's quick, strong, and crafty and has terrific feet. With two good years of film already under his belt, I think he's shown scouts enough to get a good read on him. Picking at the end of the first, and knowing that his size won't hinder him in our scheme, I wouldn't feel bad about taking him at all.

Did Seattle run a zone scheme at that time?

Seattle ran a power man scheme during the Jones/Hutchinson years. They knew those two would always beat their assignments.

It's pretty hard to beat Jones and Hutchinson. That might be the best left side in the history of the game. I agree that Williams has the athletic ability to be as good as Jones. With Hudson, we might be getting a better pass protector than Hutchinson, but part of what made Hutchinson and Jones so awesome, is that they could consistently just line up and drive the other guys back, regardless of the opponent. I'm not sure you get quite the same advantages of having the elite OT and OG on the same side in a ZBS as you do in a man scheme. What do you think?

You're right, Hudson wouldn't be the matchup nightmare Hutchinson was. But he's so impressively quick that he'd win a lot of his assignments in a ZBS from getting to his spots quicker. He's tailor made for the scheme because he's low and fast and is already good at turning defenders. He's not much of a cut blocker yet but you have to remember that almost no college lineman ever is. I agree that his technique in the open field could use some work. But that's less a part of the ZBS than one would think, which involves a lot more lateral movement for lineman.

And then there is his glorious talent in pass protection. When he sinks his anchor and sticks his hands on the defender, he locks them down. These guys are bigger than him and Hudson just holds his own and makes it look easy. Must be his natural leverage. I also liked what I saw of him picking up the blitz. That's an incredibly good UNC defensive front he's handling.

As far as the the advantage of having elite LT/LG combos, they would be the same in pass protection at least. It'd be nice for our QB to never really have to worry about blind side pressure. In the running game, if your LT and LG can both win their assignments and you can scheme them to run anywhere, it frees up your center from having to combo block with either of them. You can then have him help out the RG, or move him up field when it suits. It'd still be a really nice advantage to have ZBS or not.

What do you think about Nate Solder's fit for our scheme?

I'm mixed on my opinion of Solder. My first impression of him is that he's too tall to be a good fit. Have you ever heard of a standout ZBS tackle that's 6'8? Then again you watch him run and he looks more like an NBA player and not your typical 6'8 OT. Alex Gibbs once gave an interview where he said unequivocally that he didn't want any OTs over 6'5". Could he make an exception for Solder given the fact he runs so fast? And then there's this little blurb from NFLdraftscout.com (emphasis mine):

08/11/2010 - HOW NEXT YEAR'S DRAFT CLASS RESEMBLES CROP OF 2010: OT Nate Solder (Colorado) compared to Trent Williams...The offensive tackle position is a premium position in the NFL, and the more versatile a tackle, the more attractive he is to a prospective employer -- just ask Trent Williams. Entering the draft process, Williams was widely considered the No. 2-rated senior available with Oklahoma State's Russell Okung being the consensus No. 1. There were plenty of concerns surrounding Williams' attitude, consistency and maturity. But, after he ran a 4.88 40, tested well during drills and workouts and answered all of the questions that teams asked, the Washington Redskins felt comfortable selecting him with the fourth overall pick and making him the first tackle off the board. Entering the '10 season, Solder is currently NFLDraftScout.com's No. 2-rated senior OT with Wisconsin's Gabe Carimi in the top spot. But, just like Williams, Solder is more intriguing given his athleticism and upside at the position. A converted tight end, Solder, who is listed at 6-8, 302, is still developing physically and has improved his technique in each of the last two years. During his time at Colorado, Solder has also been clocked in the 40 at 4.8, and with a solid senior season and a strong offseason, his value could soar as Williams' did. - Chris Steuber, NFLDraftScout.com

He's a smooth looking athlete too and doesn't look gangly or awkward. His arms are super long, and he's got good knee bend and balance. One thing I'd definitely worry about is his base strength given he's about as high cut as they come. But not as much if we're talking about him in a ZBS. I don't know the ins and the outs of the system all that well, but if he's being compared to Trent Williams, doesn't that mean he could fit? Here's a good video of him in a game last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5DyDyVZO6U

He gets beaten pretty bad at one point when he's too slow out of his stance and doesn't get his hands on the guy, but other than that he does a pretty good job that game. His speed is blazing and his upper body strength looks solid even though he's nearly always working with a leverage disadvantage. I think he could have a hell of a punch with some work. He even gets some nice push in the running game towards the goal line at one point. He's got good instincts too. He makes the right adjustments and usually finds the right man to block which is crucial since you see the rest of Colorado's OL getting beat constantly. Also remember when watching this, Missouri fields the best DE combination in the Big 12, so he's not playing scrubs here.

Would I draft him if he has a good year and good combine and is one of the BPA when we pick? I think it depends on what Jamaal Brown's situation is. If Brown isn't on the team any more, then I probably would because it would be friggin awesome to have two elite pass protectors as our bookends for the next decade. We'd never need to keep our tight ends home to pass block and we'd still be able to shut down pressure from the edge.

[Dukes and Skins]

Steve I've been looking around at some draft sites and there are a few positions I feel are the strongest going into next year QB, WR ILB and OLB. The ones I want to focus one are the ILB and OLB positions and a few guys I've come around to look at who I feel could be stars on our team. First off at the ILB position I want to look at Greg Jones and Chris Galippo. Greg Jones was the star LB on a Michigan State team that was decent last year. He has the agility and strength to fight off blockers and he could be the guy we want to plug in at LB and make our ILB for a long time if we choose to let Rocky go in FA. Galippo is a LB for a good D in USC and he's not as touted as some would think because he's a USC guy but trust me in the times I've watched him he stands out on the film and makes plays constantly. Those two guys could be nice fits at ILB for us. OLB in the 3-4 is a different animal because outside of Quinn and Miller, there isn't a lot of top end starters but there are a few guys who I think are flying under the radar but they have the stats to prove that in a 3-4 D scheme they could definitely be the guy who could shine. LaMarr Woodley was the same way in college he had some size but he wasn't a monster sized LB coming out of college and he mostly played as a DE. The guys I'm looking at are Bruce Miller and Ricky Elmore.

Bruce Miller is a DE for UCF but many project him as a OLB in the 3-4 because he has the strength to take on the run and be effective in pass rushing. At only 253 he's not going to be a guy who will stand out on the field when you first look at him but once he starts playing and you see him manhandle some of these OG and OT's you'll understand why he should be picked by this team. Imagine what Jared Allen was in college and you have Bruce Miller although I think Bruce is more suitable for the 3-4 and he would do much better in that scheme than the 4-3 because it would allow him to show off his pass rushing skill but also allow him to show off his strength to stop the run

Heres a nice video of Miller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FABW6VvkrA

Ricky Elmore is another guy you want to keep an eye out on because also he has the size to be a 3-4 OLB because he's got the strength to take on the blockers but also he was able to put up 10.5 sacks as a DE in the 4-3. I think he's better suited as a 3-4 OLB and if I had to compare him to one player in the NFL I would say Paul Krueger from Baltimore is the best example there about the same size and they have very similar builds. He's someone who right now is around a mid 3rd to early 4th round pick but if he puts up a season like Krueger did, then he'll skyrocket up boards.

If you couldn't tell I'm very excited about Bruce Miller I think he's going to be a diamond in the 2011 draft and someone I would be more than happy to draft because he'll give you everything he has and he'll put up the stats to back it up