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Glacier National Park to have no glaciers by 2030


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66 replies to this topic

#41 twa

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:10 PM

Here's the irony: all this glacial mel****er might result in another ice age. Recent studies have shown an increase in freshwater in the earth's water cycle.. All this water may alter or slow the gulf stream to the point that there is increased cooling and glaciation.


That should give us incentive to use all that water right?
Dam it up and you create cold spots and precious h2o :cool:

#42 mcsluggo

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:56 PM

Here's the irony: all this glacial mel****er might result in another ice age. Recent studies have shown an increase in freshwater in the earth's water cycle.. All this water may alter or slow the gulf stream to the point that there is increased cooling and glaciation.


would that create global cooling? or just European cooling? In either case... the brits would certainly be screwed!

#43 Destino

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:01 PM

If the glaciers melt that should give ya more land to hunt and fish on :)

Personally I think it will be cool to go back there and walk on land no one else has.

I never realized you were such a positive person! Way to find the silver lining.

#44 Mickalino

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:04 PM

If the glaciers melt that should give ya more land to hunt and fish on :)


You fish on land ?

And how does melting glaciers create more land ? If anything, it creates more water. The glacier water doesn't just dissappear, unless it evaporates after melting.

Edited by Mickalino, 08 October 2010 - 01:06 PM.


#45 December90

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:38 PM

You fish on land ?

And how does melting glaciers create more land ? If anything, it creates more water. The glacier water doesn't just dissappear, unless it evaporates after melting.


Are you assuming that all ice that will melt is above water now? water is unique in that it actually contracts when it melts. Simply put Frozen water (Ice) takes up more room than liquid water...

Perhaps we should just shun anything modern and move back in out caves, hunt with spears and eat grass and raw meat.

The climate is changing now just as it has always changed in the past. We cannot stop this change no matter how much we wanted to.

#46 PeterMP

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:40 PM

We cannot stop this change no matter how much we wanted to.

Why not?

#47 December90

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:47 PM

Why not?

Why would you want to change the natural order of things?

What make you think that man can cause or prevent the next ice age?

#48 Predicto

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:49 PM

Are you assuming that all ice that will melt is above water now? water is unique in that it actually contracts when it melts. Simply put Frozen water (Ice) takes up more room than liquid water...


Actually, you have it backwards again. It is true that ice takes up more room than liquid water, but warmer liquid water also takes up more room than colder liquid water. If the oceans warm, sea levels will rise, independent of whether any ice is available to melt.

Perhaps we should just shun anything modern and move back in out caves, hunt with spears and eat grass and raw meat.


Perhaps empty slogans aren't that useful in these discussions.

The climate is changing now just as it has always changed in the past.


The models seem to indicate that it is changing FASTER now.

We cannot stop this change no matter how much we wanted to.


"In fact, we cant' even try to slow it. We need to embrace it!" - Exxon spokesman.

#49 Predicto

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:51 PM

Why would you want to change the natural order of things?

What make you think that man can cause or prevent the next ice age?


If it is the natural order of things that the next Ice Age will come on us 8,000 years from now, no matter what we do, I nevertheless would prefer that we not make it come on us 80 years from now instead.

#50 skinfan133

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:58 PM

Why not?


Actually, the statement he made is a legitimate one, or at least its coupled with a legitimate question: what the hell can man do to actually change the weather on a massive scale? I'm afraid the answer is 'not much.'

along this line of thinking, I think the Pentagon of all groups is ahead of the curve on climate change. They don't care if its man made or not, but they sure as hell have contingency plans in place for if the oceans do rise. Which begs the question, why are politicians more concerned with trying to prevent the inevitable? Shouldn't they be more concerned with dealing with unpreventable oceanic shift and rise, which will affect the lives of nearly 2/3rds of America's population??? Or at least plan in this regard? Instead they focus endlessly on 'cap and trade' and convincing the public that switching light bulbs is going to save the Earth. Give me a ****ing break, anyone who believes this garbage is a goddamned moron. We need to deal with this ****, NOW. We need massive public relocation plans in place, we need to prepare for this in as many ways as possible. This won't happen of course and our country will be caught with its pants down in 50-100 years and thousands of Americans, and millions of people, will perish around the world.

actually I take it all back, cap and trade is the way to go baby.

#51 twa

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:44 PM

Eh,the earthquakes or asteroids will likely get us first.

Luckily we breed like rabbits.

Des...I keep waiting for my waterfront property,and have for ages....they better quit stalling,I ain't gonna live forever.

#52 Thiebear

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:46 PM

I'm pretty sure if the people tried to change the weather we would make it worse.
They said the Hurricanes are at 30year lows... I believe Chomerics always stated they were the Oceans air conditioner.
And this was partial proof of Global Warming.

At this point we've proven its not C02 based on most of the people i've read on here that seem to know of what they speak.
And we can say the A/C has been turned off? Or am i thinking too narrow in time?

#53 Btubes18

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:49 PM

Went to Glacier National Park this summer. Was probably one of the most amazing sights I have ever seen. Definitely make the trip if you can. At the park they project the glaciers to be gone by 2020.

#54 PeterMP

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:54 PM

Why would you want to change the natural order of things?

What make you think that man can cause or prevent the next ice age?

1. We do it all the time. I doubt where ever you are living (house, apt, etc) is the result of the natural order. I doubt much of the food you eat is the result of natural order. We do so because the decision has been made that it will be to the benefit to the human race.

2. I didn't say that we could. You stated we couldn't I asked why not, and now have not provided any information to support your statement. However, since you have turned the question on me, I will answer it:

You can start here and read the releated references as you desire:

http://en.wikipedia..../Geoengineering

#55 alexey

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:56 PM

Which begs the question, why are politicians more concerned with trying to prevent the inevitable?

Nobody is talking about prevention. They are trying to mitigate.

#56 Predicto

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:57 PM

At this point we've proven its not C02 based on most of the people i've read on here that seem to know of what they speak.


??? Really?

#57 PeterMP

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:59 PM

Actually, the statement he made is a legitimate one, or at least its coupled with a legitimate question: what the hell can man do to actually change the weather on a massive scale? I'm afraid the answer is 'not much.'

along this line of thinking, I think the Pentagon of all groups is ahead of the curve on climate change. They don't care if its man made or not, but they sure as hell have contingency plans in place for if the oceans do rise. Which begs the question, why are politicians more concerned with trying to prevent the inevitable? Shouldn't they be more concerned with dealing with unpreventable oceanic shift and rise, which will affect the lives of nearly 2/3rds of America's population??? Or at least plan in this regard? Instead they focus endlessly on 'cap and trade' and convincing the public that switching light bulbs is going to save the Earth. Give me a ****ing break, anyone who believes this garbage is a goddamned moron. We need to deal with this ****, NOW. We need massive public relocation plans in place, we need to prepare for this in as many ways as possible. This won't happen of course and our country will be caught with its pants down in 50-100 years and thousands of Americans, and millions of people, will perish around the world.

actually I take it all back, cap and trade is the way to go baby.

I actually addressed his point in responding to them.

In terms of your comments about preparing, What do you want them to do?

Build a totally currently unneeded subsitute for essentially every major East coast city, but a mile or so further in land and of course relocate the people living there so that the whole east coast moves in land.

It is almost always more cost effective to prevent a problem than to deal with curing a problem. The saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure wasn't started because it is wrong a lot.

#58 Burgold

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:00 PM

Actually, the statement he made is a legitimate one, or at least its coupled with a legitimate question: what the hell can man do to actually change the weather on a massive scale? I'm afraid the answer is 'not much.'.


I remember that being said about the hole in the ozone layer and Conservatives laughing that cow farts were causing it or complaining that a volcanic eruption had way more impact than cars did. Scientists said the data was showing that CFC's were the cause and man made CFCs were a big contributor. Well, with a few law changes here or there we have considerably shrunk the hole in the Ozone Layer and we are better off for it. Man did cause that hole to widen and man's change in behavior allowed the Earth to heal.

Very recent history shows that the "Man can't impact the environment" and "Man can't change or slow down environmental damage" is bunk.

#59 skinfan133

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:00 PM

Nobody is talking about prevention. They are trying to mitigate.

to no avail I may add. Look, the real question here is why hasn't anyone started planning for the inevitable disaster that is coming?

#60 twa

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:03 PM

??? Really?


I'm glad I'm not the only one scratching their head.

The EPA is certainly not convinced.

#61 skinfan133

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:03 PM

I actually addressed his point in responding to them.

In terms of your comments about preparing, What do you want them to do?

Build a totally currently unneeded subsitute for essentially every major East coast city, but a mile or so further in land and of course relocate the people living there so that the whole east coast moves in land.

It is almost always more cost effective to prevent a problem than to deal with curing a problem. The saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure wasn't started because it is wrong a lot.

Let's just say I'm extremely glad you hold no significant position of power, because this right here is exactly the attitude that is going to get people killed as we chase the pipe dream of prevention.

#62 PeterMP

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:12 PM

to no avail I may add. Look, the real question here is why hasn't anyone started planning for the inevitable disaster that is coming?

1. Why is the disaster inevitable? Glaciations are the result in changes in the Earth's orbit. That isn't expected to happen in over 50,000 years. Who knows what technology is going to be present then.

2. Preparing for something when you don't know what the exact results are going to be is hard. At a larger scale, climate models fail at the local level. In terms of warming, there are some general things you'd predict- sea levels are going to rise, but even that assumes something like a shut down of the thermohaline doesn't happen.

#63 alexey

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:12 PM

to no avail I may add. Look, the real question here is why hasn't anyone started planning for the inevitable disaster that is coming?

Because it's very expensive. What politician would sacrifice their carreer on that?

Things are going to happen slowly as stuff goes down. For example, we had a lot of severe thunderstorms with massive blackouts this summer. More summers like that, and politicians will start talking about preventive measures for the grid.

Edited by alexey, 08 October 2010 - 03:14 PM.


#64 PeterMP

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:13 PM

Let's just say I'm extremely glad you hold no significant position of power, because this right here is exactly the attitude that is going to get people killed as we chase the pipe dream of prevention.

People that don't look for a solution will never find a solution.

**EDIT**
What do you mean by prevention being a pipe dream?

Edited by PeterMP, 08 October 2010 - 03:59 PM.


#65 December90

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:13 PM

The way I see it

The Next Ice Age.. I mean Global Warming.. I mean Climate Change is in many ways like Y2K. If you can scare enough people, then you can influence the money.

The problem with this (what will the next name be?) is that there is no "January 1, 2000" that is around the corner where we can point and say "told you so"

Chicken Little will say "the sky is falling" until they day he dies.

Edited by December90, 08 October 2010 - 04:14 PM.


#66 alexey

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 05:14 PM

The way I see it

The Next Ice Age.. I mean Global Warming.. I mean Climate Change is in many ways like Y2K. If you can scare enough people, then you can influence the money.

The problem with this (what will the next name be?) is that there is no "January 1, 2000" that is around the corner where we can point and say "told you so"

Chicken Little will say "the sky is falling" until they day he dies.

Yeah some people simply will not change their minds. You sound like one of those people.

Some people will change their minds as the evidence for AGW continues to accumulate, as it has been. You will get increasingly frustrated as you find yourself in an ever decreasing minority.

Edited by alexey, 08 October 2010 - 05:15 PM.


#67 Predicto

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

The way I see it

The Next Ice Age.. I mean Global Warming.. I mean Climate Change is in many ways like Y2K. If you can scare enough people, then you can influence the money.

The problem with this (what will the next name be?) is that there is no "January 1, 2000" that is around the corner where we can point and say "told you so"

Chicken Little will say "the sky is falling" until they day he dies.


Part of the reason that Y2K didn't cause bigger problems is because preventive measures were taken. There is no reason to infer that there was never any problem in the first place.

Same thing with swine flu last year. They raised awareness, got the vaccinations out, nipped it in the bud... and because they were successful, some knuckleheads conclude that there must never had been any risk of a problem in the first place.

#68 China

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

The Glacier National Park may soon have to change its name: How global warming has taken its toll on America's wilderness

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