Trench Warfare - Line Talk (Update: Matthews added, Wilborn released)

For those of you who don't know, I am a HS Offensive Line/Defensive Line Coach. My passion LIVES within the offensive and defensive fronts of a football game. Without their contributions, the rest of a football team would be in total peril.

This is a thread that should be used to discuss the TRUE skill positions in football, the offensive linemen. How much "skill" does it take to run around with a football? Pfft.

So let me lay out the ground rules:

1. Thou shalt not call any position other than OL (I'd accept the DL/LS/TE as well, but I want to focus on OL here) a "skill" position. Mentioning a QB, RB, WR, LB, S, CB, P, K, an equipment manager or any other position as a "skill" guy is seen as blasphemy and you will be taunted mercilessly via my posts in reply. You've been warned.

2. Off Topic Veering - Our forum is famous for veering off topic. As long as it involves OL/DL discussion I'm OK with it. Anything other than that and I shall view you as a sympathizer with other positions. And then we're no longer friends. Yup. Major punishment.

So let's start this bad boy off.

Here is our current roster headed into the rookie mini camp in regards to the OL:

#00 OL - Kyle Wilborn (6-4, 299, NO LISTED AGE) **ROOKIE OUT OF TROY**
#60 OL - Jacolby Ashworth (6-3, 300, 22 years old) **ROOKIE OUT OF HOUSTON**
#61 OL - Xavier Nixon (6-6, 314, NO LISTED AGE) **ROOKIE OUT OF FLORIDA**
#62 OL - Tevita Stevens (6-3, 300, 25 years old) **ROOKIE OUT OF UTAH**
#63 Center - Will Montgomery (6-3, 304, 30 years old)
#66 Guard - Chris Chester (6-3, 309, 30 years old)
#67 Guard/Center - Josh LeRibeus (6-3, 315, 23 years old)
#68 Tackle - Tom Compton (6-5, 308, 23 years old)
#69 Tackle - Jeremy Trueblood (6-8, 320, 29 years old)
#71 Tackle - Trent Williams (6-5, 328, 24 years old)
#73 Guard - Adam Gettis (6-2, 292, 24 years old)
#74 Tackle - Tyler Polumbus (6-8, 305, 28 years old)
#77 Tackle - Tony Pashos (6-6, 325, 32 years old)
#78 Guard/Center - Kory Lichtensteiger (6-2, 284, 28 years old)
#79 Guard/Tackle - Maurice Hurt (6-3, 329, 25 years old)
#? Center - Kevin Matthews (6-3, 302, 26 years old)

As we ebb and flow, some names will be placed in red (cut ) and some names will be added (signed ).
 

News/Notes (OTAs)

-Josh LeRibeus is working on the side with his injured teammates.

-Maurice Hurt is having arthroscopic surgery on his knee, he's expected to return for training camp

Roster Moves
5/7 - Kyle Wilborn, rookie out of Troy was released to make room for 26 year old former Tennessee Titans center Kevin Matthews.

Now, my fellow skill position lovers, spread your wings and tell us about these men!

KDawg's Analysis
As far as I'm concerned, here are my locks to make the roster:

#71 Trent Williams
#63 Will Montgomery

I would say everyone else is open to losing their job this pre-season.

Guard Battle
Lichtensteiger, LeRibeus, Chester, Hurt and Gettis make up our returning "guard" types.

Versatility is going to aide both LeRibeus and Hurt quite a bit. Hurt filled in for the injured Tyler Polumbus at the end of the year at Right Tackle, and LeRibeus is a guy that is often mentioned as "our next center". The jury is still out on that statement, but it certainly gives him a bit more of an opportunity to make the roster than someone who can't play center. Hurt impresses me each time he's on the field. He's improved tenfold from his first preseason game up until this point. He's often a guy that many Redskin faithful believe will be cut by the end of camp, but I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Lichtensteiger was re-signed this offseason, and is a good guard. His value comes in spades to us, especially at the price we got him for. And although he and Chester may be the most seasoned guards on the roster, I don't believe either one of them is in a position that their spot is guaranteed. Having said that, a young guy would have to come in and play very, very well in order to unseat them. If, however, they are unseated, the team will need to look at their cost vs. the cap, as well as their ability to serve as a backup. Would we want to use a roster spot on an older backup? Or would we want to keep a younger player to fill that role? Time will tell.

That leaves us with Adam Gettis. In pre-season, I was impressed with his footwork, although he left something to be desired at times with his strength levels and his hand placement. But he is an explosive, athletic player. He is still practice squad eligible, so the opportunity would present itself to place him there at the start of the season, but if he has a strong enough camp/preseason, he won't last in that spot for very long as teams will come knocking. He'll be an interesting case to keep an eye on.

Tackle Battle:
Trueblood, Pashos, Compton, Hurt, Polumbus.

This is going to be interesting. It's likely that of this group, at least two will be let go, as one tackle spot is already saved for franchise LT Trent Williams. Tyler Polumbus played decently enough last year to protect RG3 and open up holes in the run game, but I wasn't terribly impressed with his strength or his pass protection. I'm not sure he's athletic enough to really play within the scheme that we are operating in. But he has a major advantage in the battle, we know what he can do in a game situation, and we've seen that position in much worse hands. Polumbus, by all accounts, is a hard worker and knows what he's doing on the field. I believe that Polumbus is going to be locked in a battle with Trueblood and Pashos for the most part. I'm not sure that the two "losers" in that battle get cut, however, I believe that the guy who comes in "third" will find himself on the waiver wire.

The "second" place finisher will likely find himself battling for a spot with Compton and Hurt. As I mentioned above, Hurt has tremendous upside and has steadily improved up until this point, and his versatility is clutch here. He can fill two spots with one man (both literally and figuratively). And Compton is a player that the Redskins staff seems to be high on, despite his lack of playing time. He looked like a rookie with promise in preseason last year, and I saw a bit of a mean streak run show its face when he saw action. I think he has what it takes, and he definitely won't last on the practice squad. I would say that Compton will make the roster, but he's not a lock, but he's as close as you can get without being a guarantee.

In the end, my hope is that of this group, we're able to part with both Trueblood and Pashos, and go with a tackle corps of: Williams, Compton, Hurt, Polumbus.

My OL group for the 2013-2014 Season
My projection now, without having seen film, tape, or offseason work is as follows:

C Will Montgomery
G/C Josh LeRibeus
G/C Kory Lichtensteiger
G Chris Chester
G Adam Gettis
G/T Maurice Hurt
T Trent Williams
T Tyler Polumbus
T Tom Compton

That group would give us three centers, five guards, and four tackles. That's twelve players trapped within nine bodies.

Just recalling from when I spoke with the Redskins OL coach, I'm fully expecting Compton and LeRibeus to start week 1. He said they both had improved dramatically from last year. Can't say who I think LeRib will start over - there's an argument for both LG and RG. No clue how Gettis is doing though.

If you stuck a gun to my head though, my prediction for starting OL in week 1:

LT: Trent Williams

LG: Kory Lichtensteiger

C: Will Montgomery

RG: Josh LeRibeus

RT: Tom Compton

I always find it interesting when you have a linemen who has a "9" at the end of his weight.

But I like the look of a lot of these kids. It'll definitely get interesting.

I watched Nixon play quite a bit, but honestly I'm not really sure why he didn't get drafted... then again, I was high on Selvish Capers years ago, too.

I honestly think that Nixon will be here to push Compton. It'll be a major upset if they are both on the roster, but could happen.

Pashos and Trueblood could both make it as well.

I see us keeping three of the starters from last year for sure:

Williams

Lich

Monty

RG is interesting for cap purposes and trust purposes...

RG Pick one:

Chester

Ribs

Gettis

The RT and swing tackle spot gets interesting...

RT Pick one:

Pashos

Trueblood

Polumbus

Compton

Nixon

back-up OT Pick one:

Whoever wasn't picked above from Pashos/Trueblood/Polumbus

Compton

Nixon

Depth - Pick three:

Chester/Ribs/Gettis

Pashos/Trueblood/Polumbus/Compton/Nixon

Hurt

Ashworth

Stevens

Wilborn

I suspect at leat a two of these guys will be kept for the PS after roster cuts.

DC,

I think in general you're going to be right on the money. But I still think versatility on a Shanahan coached team is going to win out in a lot of ways. I also think it's going to be VERY hard for the team to cut Lich or Chester, even if they aren't starting. Reason being is, if we get poor play from the younger players, or injuries, those are guys that we know can step in and perform adequately in order to protect Griffin.

It's a slippery slope, though, for sure.

I also agree that we'll see at least one, maybe two players put on the practice squad.

Although, a guy like Nixon intrigues me. If he performs well, (or any of the rookie UDFAs) perform well enough, they could unseat Chester/Lich. I'm not sure we'd keep a guy like Trueblood or Pashos over either one of them, though. But we'll see. Camps are going to clear our vision quite a bit.

But what about girls lacrosse techniques and your main field of expertise Coach ..... ?

Hail.

I think in general you're going to be right on the money. But I still think versatility on a Shanahan coached team is going to win out in a lot of ways. I also think it's going to be VERY hard for the team to cut Lich or Chester, even if they aren't starting. Reason being is, if we get poor play from the younger players, or injuries, those are guys that we know can step in and perform adequately in order to protect Griffin.

I totally agree. I'm actually a Lich fan. People give him hell but he's a baller and the best second-level blocker on the team. Chester is so consistant it's crazy for us to even NOT have him as a lock... but I'm with you, I think both of those guys are safe at the end of the day.

But I do worry about Mo Hurt. He can do so much for you and he got so much better in that 2011 season where he played LG. Every game he got better and better. And then he came in at RT this past season in a pinch with Polumbus concussed? That versatility will help his case, but he's no garuntee. I'm rooting for him though, very hard.

--- Mo Hurt's biggest enemies right now is that he is good at Guard and decent at Tackle. Ribs and Gettis are supposed to be better than good at C/G and the heir apparents to Monty and Chester...

----- Mo at RT? Eh, you have about 400 people trying out for that right now and Nixon and Compton can swing to the other side if need be. I'd love to have Hurt as a "utility linemen" but it may not be in the cards.

I don't envy the team making cuts this year. We thought they were hard last year? Just think if one of these UDFA pans out as a depth guy, we could see some unplanned shifting that will surprise us.

And heck, I forgot Gettis on my list above, lol... even more drama!

I don't know, DC.

I think Hurt's versatility is a major asset.

Of the tackles, do you think the team keeps Trueblood or Pashos over Hurt at the moment? I don't. I think Trueblood and Pashos were pretty much brought in to compete for the starting RT position. If they don't win it, I think both are in real trouble. I see us keeping nine linemen. And I think if Nixon impresses we may can Chester or Lich to save some cash (not a lot) and go with the younger versatility of Hurt. If you forced me to pick one of those two to be cut, it would be Chester, unfortunately. He has less versatility.

Although, a guy like Nixon intrigues me. If he performs well, (or any of the rookie UDFAs) perform well enough, they could unseat Chester/Lich. I'm not sure we'd keep a guy like Trueblood or Pashos over either one of them, though. But we'll see. Camps are going to clear our vision quite a bit.

lol, I was just saying that if Nixon or any of these UDFA's pan it, I think the first man out is Mo Hurt. But Chester is the second man out, in my opinion (mind you, I've got no starting RT and no one there is "in" or "out" right now, for me... that's it's own thing, man) because we have Ribs and Gettis marinading as the heirs. Monty stays regardless, and Lich or Ribs could be his backup/heir apparent... so, to me, the more you can do the better...

Wasn't there some chatter from the Skinssiders about Chester being the odd man out?

Obviously, the starting OL will be difficult to predict. The team still needs to make it through camp and preseason without any catastrophic injuries.

Silverback

Lichtensteiger

Monty

Gettis/Hurt/Ribs

Trueblood/Compton/Polumbus

As we currently stand, I think the following make the roster:

OT Williams, Pashos, Compton

OG Lictensteiger, LeRibeus (Swing guard/ center), Hurt (Swing guard/ tackle) and Gettis.

OC Montgomery.

Some noteable absentees from our recent past like Chester and Polumbus; but I honestly think we start looking to nail down the long term future of the group as well a trying to 'win now.' Only 8, but the versatiility of swing guys allows us to go deeper at other positions whilst feeling comfortable with the talent we keep.

I'd anticipate the week one starters would be:

LT Williams

LG Lichtensteiger

C Montgomery

RG LeRibeus

RT Pashos , with Compton taking over by seasons end.

But the one guy I'm seriously pulling for, aside from 'Straight Outa' '; is the undrafted rook Nixon. If he can settle down and add consistency to his undoubted talent under Coach Foerster and co's tutelage, that will be HUGE. We'd then be looking at a young tackle core of Trent, Compton and Nixon. And suddenly people's fears are lessened.

He's 23 BTW Coach.

Hail.

Wasn't there some chatter from the Skinssiders about Chester being the odd man out?

I don't know, I don't listen to a whole lot of what they say (And no, let's not have someone come in here and spin it. I think those guys are great, and they do a great service.) I try to form my opinions on things without doing a whole lot of reading in articles/listening to podcasts. I do catch their tidbits from time to time on here, and they're a lot of fun and usually pretty much on the money, though.

But, like I've mentioned, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he currently was the guy that could be the odd man out.

I don't know, DC.

I think Hurt's versatility is a major asset.

Of the tackles, do you think the team keeps Trueblood or Pashos over Hurt at the moment? I don't. I think Trueblood and Pashos were pretty much brought in to compete for the starting RT position. If they don't win it, I think both are in real trouble. I see us keeping nine linemen. And I think if Nixon impresses we may can Chester or Lich to save some cash (not a lot) and go with the younger versatility of Hurt. If you forced me to pick one of those two to be cut, it would be Chester, unfortunately. He has less versatility.

I agree.

I would cut Chester first, too. I'm just going with what I think the team will do. It's Chester's experience and consistency vs Hurt's versatility. Plus you save some coin by cutting Chester.

Lich was the 2nd highest rated Center in his draft class and can play any of the middle three. He has a good report with Trent right now, so I'm not messing that up.

But the two dark horse issues to keep an eye on... Monty (one of the best Centers in the NFL last year, but is now approaching the "aging" group) and Chester (already in that older category) and both having their heirs already on the roster (Ribs and Gettis). So, do you make that move a year early or do you keep the line (minus RT) that led the leagues top rushing attack together again?

It'll be easy to tell what's up early on in my opinion. But if you keep Chester and replace the starter at RT, depending on who that starter is and ESPECIALLY if that starter is Compton or by some miracle Nixon... you have to keep a veteran backup.

So, to illustrate, if we go (for instance - for those of you out there who pre-maturally quote me!):

Trent

Lich

Monty

Chester

Compton

Then you have to keep:

Ribs

Gettis

and a veteran tackle. You can't have Hurt backing up Compton. The only way you keep Hurt is if you cut Gettis or Ribs. That's why I'm saying he is the first man out in this particular scenario.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2013 at 11:40 AM ----------

If it were me, knowing what we know right now, I'd go:

Trent

Lich

Monty

Ribs

Compton

back-ups:

Hurt

Gettis

Pashos/Polumbus

I'd practice squad Nixon with plans to pull him out if/when someone comes-a-poching.

and a veteran tackle. You can't have Hurt backing up Compton. The only way you keep Hurt is if you cut Gettis or Ribs. That's why I'm saying he is the first man out in this particular scenario.

.

With this scenario you only have 8 OL making the roster. I don't think that's going to be the case...

QB (3)

RB (3-4)

FB (1)

TE (3-4)

OL (9)

WR (5)

So, to illustrate, if we go (for instance - for those of you out there who pre-maturally quote me!):

Trent

Lich

Monty

Chester

Compton

Then you have to keep:

Ribs

Gettis

and a veteran tackle. You can't have Hurt backing up Compton. The only way you keep Hurt is if you cut Gettis or Ribs. That's why I'm saying he is the first man out in this particular scenario.

If it played out that Compton won the RT job, I'd say we'd keep Pashos or Trueblood around and cut Polumbus. Pashos/Trueblood would act as the first swing tackle to play either side of the LOS. Hurt would be the 3rd string RT and probably act as a 2/3 G.

With this scenario you only have 8 OL making the roster.

Yep. Those Nancies that play off the line will be taking some spots this year. I blame our 5th string guard... #8?

If it played out that Compton won the RT job, I'd say we'd keep Pashos or Trueblood around and cut Polumbus. Pashos/Trueblood would act as the first swing tackle to play either side of the LOS. Hurt would be the 3rd string RT and probably act as a 2/3 G

So how many do you have us keeping? If we keep 9 then absolutely you keep Hurt. And I agree, I think it's Pashos because he can play both sides.

I can see us going with LeRib starting but i thought Chester was much more consistent than Kory on the otherside . Kory would also back up LG and C - not saying that is a reason to keep him but just an observation ... I could see us going with the following

OLT - Williams / Hurt

OLG - LeRibus/Lichtensiger

OC - Montgomery / Lichtenstiger

ORG - Chester / Hurt

ORT - Polumbus - Compton

I think Trueblood and or Pashos might stick as a swing tackle and we might see the eventual starter being someone not currently on the roster be it through injury or being blown away by some UDFA stud (like Nixon) for example - but right now I can see Polumbus being the day 1 starter and Compton will get fed in as we moved from DD to Lich ..

With this scenario you only have 8 OL making the roster. I don't think that's going to be the case...

QB (3)

RB (3-4)

FB (1)

WR (5)

Uh ohhhhhh

Just kidding... I know why you did it, lol. But it depends on how many 4th string guards we keep that play 10 yards behind the d-line on defense. I would love 9 and I think we have more than 9 that can play well in the NFL.

LeRibeus is a guy that is often mentioned as "our next center". The jury is still out on that statement, but it certainly gives him a bit more of an opportunity to make the roster than someone who can't play center.

Was there anything specific that you saw last year to make you think LeRibeus isn't ready to be a starter at C (aside from Monty's performance)? Just curious about that.

Was there anything specific that you saw last year to make you think LeRibeus isn't ready to be a starter at C (aside from Monty's performance)? Just curious about that.

Ribs is weak in pass protection but is average to good against the run (at RG). That's typical of rookies on the interior of the line coming into the NFL. We didn't see a whole lot of Ribs outside of a few series at the end of the season so it's hard to tell.

The fact that Gettis went in for Chester in the pre-season didn't speak well of him, but I'm glad he got live reps during the pre-season.

But the thing you have to look at in picking linemen this year (especially reserve linemen) is how versatile are they? Ribs can play both guards and center. Hurt can play both guards and right tackle. Gettis can probably only play both guards.

So when you are picking the starters and the back-ups, that's something to keep in mind. Typical teams only dress 7 linemen on the active gameday roster. So versatility is very important.

I'd really love to know what they think of their RT position. Personally, I think it is awful but nothing would please me more than being dead wrong. The "Compton movement" on this board has earned my interest, but alas, I haven't found any real basis for optimism there. Realistically, that position may have to be addressed next offseason. That would suck.

Was there anything specific that you saw last year to make you think LeRibeus isn't ready to be a starter at C (aside from Monty's performance)? Just curious about that.

Not particularly. Of the three rookies last year, though, LeRibeus was actually the least impressive to me. Now, I'll note that it may be because I had the highest expectations for him. I didn't like him in pass pro all that much, but he was pretty decent in the running game. And I'm 100% positive he's improved his game from last year. I just don't like to label guys as "the next" of anything until they prove they can do it on the field. And aside from a mediocre preseason last year, we haven't seen much. Having said all of that, I think he could absolutely be the guy to replace him. It's not even a knock on him, in fact it's the opposite... I don't want to short change him for performances from the beginning of his pro career, as I think he has a ton of upside.

I'd really love to know what they think of their RT position. Personally, I think it is awful but nothing would please me more than being dead wrong. The "Compton movement" on this board has earned my interest, but alas, I haven't found any real basis for optimism there. Realistically, that position may have to be addressed next offseason. That would suck.

I don't think it's as pourous as you do, but we could definitely stand to upgrade the position... Unless, of course, Compton, Hurt or Nixon/unheralded UDFA turn out to be a monster this year

Thanks to someone who remains nameless who over my time here has turned me into a massive line guy (Ofernsive mainly. As much as I appreciate the big uglys over the otherside of the ball, my I ickle head can only fully cope with one serious area of interest); this is my new favourite thread.

Chalk Talk was awesome. It's little lived and much less known predecessor G/L Chalk Talk was meh. (That one failed through lack of pictures of said participants.).

But this one tops the lot. May it grow and develop from piglet to full grown, kick ass Hog!

Hail.

GHH,

I'll shelf my Landry Jones comedy for now, seeing how I'd be breaking my own rules... So I'll be serious...

I say it all the time to people. There are complexities occuring all over the football field at all times during the course of a football game. However, if you understand line play, you get such a huge portion of the game's knowledge it's scary. When I was playing OL in HS I kind of resented it. I was a 165 lb OL that was only put there because I was strong enough to do it and we needed guys on the line. I wanted to be a RB, a LB, anything other than an OL. But as I continued to play it, I learned to love it. I never once thought that I'd want to coach offensive line when I was growing up... but I LOVE the line. It's so much fun to watch and analyze, and it really does make the entire game seem much easier to follow.

Not particularly. Of the three rookies last year, though, LeRibeus was actually the least impressive to me. Now, I'll note that it may be because I had the highest expectations for him. I didn't like him in pass pro all that much, but he was pretty decent in the running game. And I'm 100% positive he's improved his game from last year. I just don't like to label guys as "the next" of anything until they prove they can do it on the field. And aside from a mediocre preseason last year, we haven't seen much. Having said all of that, I think he could absolutely be the guy to replace him. It's not even a knock on him, in fact it's the opposite... I don't want to short change him for performances from the beginning of his pro career, as I think he has a ton of upside.

I don't think it's as pourous as you do, but we could definitely stand to upgrade the position... Unless, of course, Compton, Hurt or Nixon/unheralded UDFA turn out to be a monster this year

Porous maybe a little harsh, especially because Polumbus was just fine during run-blocking duties. My big concern is about RGIII's development. Injury or not, he needs to progress as a full-field reading passer. Whether it was 3rd and long or the very few situations where we were down by multiple scores with little time left, our pass protection on the right side was awful. If we can't add an NFL staple in terms of just a normal drop back passing game, it will hinder RGIII's growth. Easier said than done in finding a stud RT, though.

Easier said than done in finding a stud RT, though.

While that's true, I certainly agree that it needs to be an ongoing search until the staff finds someone they deem worthy. Having said that, they might already think they have that guy under contract. Or the exact opposite. They could be nervous about the fact that they don't have that guy. It's going to be an interesting pre-season, that's for sure!

Also, I have to say... Other than RG3, I think the best player on this football team is Trent Williams. Linemen never get that kind of love because stats are so unreliable/non-existant when looking at a lineman, but Trent Williams has good footwork, is huge, is athletic, uses momentum and hand placement quite well, has excellent leg drive and knows his assignments. Watching him play is so much fun I can't describe it. He makes mistakes, sure. But the guy is flat out a football player with a mean streak.