A sports junkies caller blew my mind this morning about a loophole in the you cant throw a challenge flag on an automatic reviewable play

So everyone on Thanksgiving saw the Jim Schwartz GOOF that cost the Texans a TD. If you didn'd see it what happened was the texans did a running play the RB gets hit in full speed doesnt look like he goes down no whistle is blown and he scores a TD. Replay showed his knee was clearly down Jim Schwartz threw his challenge flag but the play was a scoring play which is automatically reviewed. But the rule is if a challenge flag is thrown on a play thats automatically a challengable play (SCORING PLAY OR TURNOVER) The team that threw the flag gets a 15 yd. penalty and the play is no longer reviewable. So the Texans TD stood and the Lions got screwed. Now heres the loophole and I'll use the skins as an example. Santana Moss catches a TD but clearly doesnt get both feet in but the Refs call it a TD. If Shanny throws the red flag he gets a 15 yd penalty but the play wont be reviewable meaning the Moss TD will count. We will be penalized on the kickoff 15 yds. but who cares the TD still counts....THOUGHTS.

MODS If this need to be moved to Around the NFL please do.....THANKS

EDIT: It was confirmed on post #32 in this thread that there is no loophole. If Shanny were to throw the flag the Skins and only the Skins would get penalized for it.

People have been talking about this 'approach' all week. This will work for maybe one more week because the league will realize how dumb the rule is in the first place and change that part of the rule.

You're just hearing about this now?

I thought what they said was the team that threw the flag could not benefit from it in any way.

You're just hearing about this now?

Never really thought of that aspect. Always thought the rule was stupid to take the challenge away. Replay is there to help the officials make the right call taking it away on a technicality is ridiculous. It should be a 15 yd. penalty and thats that.

When you really get down to it, it should only be a 5 yard delay of game penalty.

Never really thought of that aspect. Always thought the rule was stupid to take the challenge away. Replay is there to help the officials make the right call taking it away on a technicality is ridiculous. It should be a 15 yd. penalty and thats that.

That rule will probably get nixed before the playoffs.

This rule is akin to police deciding to let you be murdered because you called THEM rather than allowing them to discover your plight themselves.

****ing stupid.

replay is there to make sure the play gets called correctly, and if a team is penalized because a coach has to insist that they do that, it takes away from the entire game and the entire sport.

In the eyes of the league, the bottom line should be to get the call RIGHT.

And this "great idea" in the OP. All it does is cheat the system.

Hard to get behind that. It just continues to illustrate the convoluted mess the rules have become. They've taken a very simple game and turned it into a ridiculous comedy of errors.

Don't get me wrong,, if the situation presents itself, I hope Shanny takes it. So long as it's in the rules, may as well.

~Bang

This rule is akin to police deciding to let you be murdered because you called THEM rather than allowing them to discvover your plight themselves.

****ing stupid.

replay is there to make sure the play gets called correctly, and if a team ins penalized because a coach has to insist that they do that, it takes away from the entire game and the entire sport.

In the eyes of the league, the bottom line should be to get the call RIGHT.

What a convoluted mess. They've taken a very simple game and turned it into a ridiculous comedy of errors.

~Bang

Mara had to have been involved with making up this rule.

I am surprised you don't also lose draft picks.

I raised the point in the thread "keys to victory against the giants".

The idea is nice and would screw Mara easily. but I don't see Shanny do this. way too classy for that.

Furthermore, it does require the refs to call TD on the field.

But yes, clearly, if the refs calls a TD on the field, and you're pretty sure there's no TD. Just throw the flag, take the penalty and score 7 points.

Mara had to have been involved with making up this rule.

I am surprised you don't also lose draft picks.

EDIT: here's the article http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/24/john-mara-favored-the-red-flag-rule-now-wants-to-see-it-reviewed/

Yeah, we get it. But this example was pretty terrible.

Santana scores a TD but doesn't get both feet down. Why would Shanahan challenge it?

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 10:15 AM ----------

And the biggest problem with the rule, in my opinion, is what if the flag is thrown BEFORE it is a touchdown? How is the coach supposed to know beforehand whether it will be a TD or not?

IMO, and I may be in the minority, the coaches are really being dumb for throwing the challenge flag in the first place. I know it's reactionary, but they know all turnovers and TDs will be reviewed anyway. Whether the rule gets changed, remains to be seen.

Yeah, we get it. But this example was pretty terrible.

Santana scores a TD but doesn't get both feet down. Why would Shanahan challenge it?

Actually it was a perfect example, you just don't get it. He would challenge it, taking the 15 yard penalty on purpose so the play would then be deemed unreviewable. Meaning the touchdown ruled on the field, even though obviously not really a touchdown once you watch the replay, would stand.

Yeah, we get it. But this example was pretty terrible.

Santana scores a TD but doesn't get both feet down. Why would Shanahan challenge it?

I think you are missing the entire point.

In the scenario above, Shanahan would throw the challenge flag to ensure the play couldn't be reviewed and thus overturned. Giving the Redskins a TD incorrectly and simply taking a 15 yard penalty on the kickoff.

There's no loophole. The play CAN be reviewed, it's just that the review can't benefit the penalized team. So, throwing a challenge flag to prevent the other team from benefiting from a review won't work. They'll get the review plus the 15 yard penalty and you will look like a fool for trying to exploit a loophole that doesn't exist.

The rule is dumb on its own merit. It doesn't need a fictitious loophole to make it garbage. End thread.

Yeah, we get it. But this example was pretty terrible.

Santana scores a TD but doesn't get both feet down. Why would Shanahan challenge it?

you don't get it. by throwing the challenge flag, he can PREVENT the automatic review, which would likely overturn the touchdown, by taking the penalty and making the play "unreviewable".

I thought what they said was the team that threw the flag could not benefit from it in any way.

There's no loophole. The play CAN be reviewed, it's just that the review can't benefit the penalized team. So, throwing a challenge flag to prevent the other team from benefiting from a review won't work. They'll get the review plus the 15 yard penalty and you will look like a fool for trying to exploit a loophole that doesn't exist.

The rule is dumb on its own merit. It doesn't need a fictitious loophole to make it garbage. End thread.

Yep thats what I thought.

you don't get it. by throwing the challenge flag, he can PREVENT the automatic review, which would likely overturn the touchdown, by taking the penalty and making the play "unreviewable".

Seriously guys???? What is he going to challenge? The refs are not stupid... What would likely happen is that the refs would tell Shanahan that there is nothing for him to challenge and have him pick up the flag. (They may even penalize him...) I doubt that they would enforce the penalty and make the play non-reviewable. The only advantage would be to the opposing team as the booth has now had more time to look at the replay.

I like this idea but I'm pretty sure it would not work. The rule is that the team that illegally throws the challenge flag cannot benefit from a review.... The Skins wouldn't be befitting from a review here... They would overturn the touchdown, move us back 15 (or possibly 35) yards and probably eject Santana Moss.

There's no loophole. The play CAN be reviewed, it's just that the review can't benefit the penalized team. So, throwing a challenge flag to prevent the other team from benefiting from a review won't work. They'll get the review plus the 15 yard penalty and you will look like a fool for trying to exploit a loophole that doesn't exist.

The rule is dumb on its own merit. It doesn't need a fictitious loophole to make it garbage. End thread.

It's This ^ guys.

This has been spoken about at length in the media so I'm surprised so many think this "loophole" exists. The rule is that the penalized team cannot benefit from a challenge, not that they cannot be a challenge.

There is no loophole, it's just a stupid rule.

Hey you guys. Did you hear about this new game system they are coming out with? I think it's called Atari. Word is their game Pong is going to revolutionize video gaming.

Seriously guys???? What is he going to challenge? The refs are not stupid... What would likely happen is that the refs would tell Shanahan that there is nothing for him to challenge and have him pick up the flag. (They may even penalize him...) I doubt that they would enforce the penalty and make the play non-reviewable. The only advantage would be to the opposing team as the booth has now had more time to look at the replay.

the refs might do that, but they'd be breaking the official NFL rules. that's why it's called a loophole -- it doesn't make sense, but that's the letter of the law. If shannahan says he wants to challenge the play, it is, according to the rules, 1) a dead-ball penalty on the redskins (previous play counts) and 2) the touchdown is no longer booth-reviewable. that's how the rule is written. it's really stupid, and that's the point we're making.

This thread should be locked. It's just misinformation and the title is a mess.

The lesson here is that listening to sports talk radio often results in a lesser understanding of sports, rather than a greater one.

This thread should be locked. It's just misinformation and the title is a mess.

The lesson here is that listening to sports talk radio often results in a lesser understanding of sports, rather than a greater one.